the New York reload - is it REALLY the fastest?

the New York reload - is it REALLY the fastest?

This is a discussion on the New York reload - is it REALLY the fastest? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; someone mentioned the New York reload on another thread today, and it revived some old thoughts of mine. definition and description: a New York reload ...

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Thread: the New York reload - is it REALLY the fastest?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    the New York reload - is it REALLY the fastest?

    someone mentioned the New York reload on another thread today, and it revived some old thoughts of mine.

    definition and description: a New York reload is when the shooter accesses a second gun rather than reloading the weapon he or she has just fired empty. typically accompanied by the phrase, "the fastest way to get back in the fight", or something similar.

    has anyone here actually USED a NY reload in a real SHTF scenario? if you have, please describe the situation and what you did.

    for the purpose of this discussion, i am considering the NY reload ONLY as the fastest option to resume shooting after the primary gun is first shot dry. there has been no injury to the strong side shooting arm or hand.

    my main question about the speed of this technique is that it seems to require the user to simply drop his or her primary weapon and quickly access the BUG. a big mental 'ouch'! i suspect that most DC members carry a pretty nice weapon as the primary. yes, i know that my life is worth far more than the price of even my most expensive gun, but still.... i think my impulse would be to try to holster the gun or pocket it, or do something to safely stash my primary weapon before drawing the back-up. this should pretty much negate whatever speed advantage the technique ought to provide.

    a second question is this: typically my BUG, if i'm carrying one, is accessible most easily by my off hand. it usually lives in my left front pocket. it's also smaller, chambers a less powerful cartridge, and is harder for me to shoot well than the guns i use for primary carry - it's a Smith 642. once drawn, i would then have to transfer the BUG to my right hand. without experimenting, i am pretty sure that i could get to and reload a spare magazine or speedloader or moon clip about as fast as i could bring my BUG into play, even if i just dropped the primary weapon on the ground.

    in other words, unless my primary gun appeared broken or i had no more reloads for it, i would prefer to reload the primary weapon instead of going for the BUG.

    what do the rest of you think?

  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    In my opinion, if the situation dictated, this NY Reload would be on the table. However, I feel that one should be well trained with the primary weapon and reloading it quickly including malfunction drills. In fact, I do not carry a BUG.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

  3. #3
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    1. No one ever said a BUG had to be a micro/pocket gun.

    2. Learn to shoot with your support hand.

    Some carry an alternate firearm. It takes a little more effort to carry a second "fighting sized" gun but it can be done.

    When it is necessary to go for that NY backup, you are likely at an extreme close range (else you would just reload your primary). This is a one handed shooting moment in my mind.

    Learning to shoot with you support hand just makes good sense to me. What if your arm is in a cast for several weeks? Will you stop carrying? It isn't difficult but it does require practice like anything else.
    "Mind own business"
    "Always cut cards"

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array elmacgyver0's Avatar
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  5. #5
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    The term "New York Reload" is an anachronism.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    I believe that Bob Stash did in one of his gunfights. There is an episode on his gunfights on the ProArms Podcast with Massad Ayoob.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  7. #7
    DBS is offline
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    My mags are simply clipped onto my belt or waistband, so they would be easier to access than a BUG, which would likely be in deep concealment.

    Therefore, I think it would be faster for me to grab a mag and slam it into the gun that is already in my hand than it would be for me to drop my first pistol and dig for the second.

    No NY reload for me, I think.

  8. #8
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    Faster? Maybe, maybe not. The "reload" is usually a smaller, lower capacity firearm. I think I'd rather rely on a 10-12 rd mag as backup than a five shot snubby.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Faster? Maybe, maybe not. The "reload" is usually a smaller, lower capacity firearm. I think I'd rather rely on a 10-12 rd mag as backup than a five shot snubby.
    Agreed. But that assumes your BUG to be a full-size weapon with 10-12 shot capacity, no? Do you, or would you, carry a full-size gun for a BUG? And a 5-shot snubby in three fiddy seven ain't such a bad backup...
    -- Robert
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  10. #10
    Member Array bigwill72's Avatar
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    I can see a NY reload being faster if the primary gun were to malfunction beyond tap, rack and bang. Besides that, better practice malfunctioning drills.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    When I carry revolvers my primary is an SP 101 3" my BUG is a 2" hammerless SP 101. Faster than a mag change (At least for me) and if I can't do the job with 10 rds of .357 then it is probably some thing I shouldn't have tried to do with a hand gun. The answer to the other question, no thank God I have not had to do this with lead flying at me.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    The New York Reload was a term made famous by Jim Cirillo of the NYPD Stakeout Squad. They carried two or three guns and shot them until they were all dry before reloading.
    Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    I dont know if Jim Cirillo coined the term the "NY RELOAD" or not... But I never heard another cop use that term. Some cops use the term "Back-up" gun. I've always used the term "SECOND GUN". They all pretty much mean the same thing. For all the time I spent on the streets I've never limited my second gun to acting as a back-up, nor did I pull it if I shot my service revolver. (I have several times) I simply did a reload. My repetitive training made reloading automatic muscle memory triggered by being out of ammo. It happened unconciously.

    First of all... You never ever ever drop your service, or primary weapon... you can holster it, put it in your pocket, or stick it in your belt depending on why it stopped shooting. I have used my second weapon for other chores. Like holding two guns to cover a large group, or covering someone without them knowing it, or covering someone when I only want him and me to know it, having a small gun in my hand and hidden when things seem about to go sideways. The main reason I carried a second gun(back-up,NYreload) was in case I became disarmed. Anyone who thinks they cant become disarmed is a fool. It can and does happen. The larger your primary gun... the more chance you have of being disarmed. Just a fact of life.

    Being a bit of a gun guy I had a bunch of different gun's I carried. While on uniformed patrol I carried a S&W model 10 4" revolver. Even when we transitioned to auto pistols and I carried a Glock 19... I still mostly carried my model 10. In uniform I carried a S&W model 36, usually in a vest holster. While on plain clothed patrol I carried either my model 10 or my glock... still with the 36 as a second gun. While working street narcotics, and in undercover operations was the only time I carried only one gun. That was a scarred broken grip pre 69 detective special. When doing raids, or pick-ups I carried old faithfull, or new faithfull with the 36 still tucked away. As a detective investigator I mostly carried two S&W 36's or sometimes a 3" R/B model 10 (and a 36). Every so often I was tasked to participate in a dynamic entry. Then I'd be armed with a stevens 311 shotgun, and I'd have my service revolver or pistol. And a S&W 36. My last assignment was investigating and apprehending shooters. Without going into details we focused on the most dangerous locations, and was tasked to take shooters off the street, and gather intelligence regarding the illegal sales of weapons. (That was forwarded to the TNT narcotics teams) That was the only time I ever carried three guns.... By then itr was common knowledge that cops carry two guns.... So I carried three.


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