Conversation w/ owner of a Post Office "outlet"

This is a discussion on Conversation w/ owner of a Post Office "outlet" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'll call it an outlet because I don't know the real name but I'm referring to Post Office's in strip malls. I've known the owner ...

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Thread: Conversation w/ owner of a Post Office "outlet"

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Conversation w/ owner of a Post Office "outlet"

    I'll call it an outlet because I don't know the real name but I'm referring to Post Office's in strip malls. I've known the owner of the one I use for a long time so I know he owns, the land, the strip mall and owns and operates the Post Office outlet.

    I was the only customer so I ask about the line between being a property owner, business owner and the Post Office being off limit to guns? The short of what he said was, in the outlets, the space from the counter to the back wall was deemed federal property but the lobby was not. So, at least in SC, I could CC, and he welcomed it, but because he was behind the counter, he could not.

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    Member Array Vuva3rae's Avatar
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    I think this is what is called a contract postal unit.

    The federal law that prohibits carry in the regular post office and other federal facilities is 18 USC 930 – Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities. It defines federal facility as follows:

    (g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

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    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    My sister and husband own a contract station. They are just that a contract station and not a federal post office. No part of the property is owned or leased by the post office. My BIL carries daily and there is at least one gun in other locations. I worked for them while i was in college and twice we had postal inspectors (federal law enforcement agents) stake out mailboxes (because it is a contract station they are not PO boxes, but private mailboxes). The were well aware my BIL and I both were carrying and said nothing about it either time.
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    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuva3rae View Post
    I think this is what is called a contract postal unit.

    The federal law that prohibits carry in the regular post office and other federal facilities is 18 USC 930 Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities. It defines federal facility as follows:
    No part of the building is leased to them, only services. The contract spells out what is included and rent is not a part of it. My sisters place is also a FedEx and UPS contract station and neither of them lease space, just services.
    Absolutely not a federal facility in any way shape or form.
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    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    I think I've got it! The Feds only lease the part of the building from the counter to the back wall to conduct official business. Interesting.
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    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    I think I've got it! The Feds only lease the part of the building from the counter to the back wall to conduct official business. Interesting.
    NO THAT IS INCORRECT! They lease NO PART OF THE PROPERTY, only services.
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    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbullgator View Post
    NO THAT IS INCORRECT! They lease NO PART OF THE PROPERTY, only services.
    Whoops! My bad, sorry badbullgator. Back to the dunce cap.
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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    I'm not really smart enough to understand or sort out the possible grey areas of "where Federal employees are regularly present....". His easy answer for me was, where the mail is, is Federal property.

    In his case as well as his employees, they do not work for the Federal government nor is the property owned or leased by the government. His words were "the area behind the counter, my work space is declared to be Federal property, where you are is not. I had to stop carrying at work when I opened this."

    I guess to the point of g,1 you could argue because they have declared part it Federal property it could extend to all but the Post Office official he questioned told him legal conceal carrying in the lobby was allowed but not behind the counter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuva3rae View Post
    I think this is what is called a contract postal unit.

    The federal law that prohibits carry in the regular post office and other federal facilities is 18 USC 930 – Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities. It defines federal facility as follows:

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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbullgator View Post
    NO THAT IS INCORRECT! They lease NO PART OF THE PROPERTY, only services.
    Interesting... I'll have to ask my guy about that.

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    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I'm not really smart enough to understand or sort out the possible grey areas of "where Federal employees are regularly present....". His easy answer for me was, where the mail is, is Federal property.

    In his case as well as his employees, they do not work for the Federal government nor is the property owned or leased by the government. His words were "the area behind the counter, my work space is declared to be Federal property, where you are is not. I had to stop carrying at work when I opened this."

    I guess to the point of g,1 you could argue because they have declared part it Federal property it could extend to all but the Post Office official he questioned told him legal conceal carrying in the lobby was allowed but not behind the counter.
    My guess is that is easier to say to people asking. How well does he know you? You do know that mail and contract stations are prime targets for robbery right? At least three times while I worked there the contract carriers (also not federal employees or mail carriers) that picked up the mail from our contract station were robbed. Once it was the carrier themselves and the other two times who knows. Many, many thousands of dollar in negotiable funds including cash goes through the post office evey day because it is cheap to insure (not cash). There were many days were we wold be sending out a quarter million dollars or more in cash, stamps, money orders, gold, jewelry, electronics, bonds.... We had a several gold and coin dealers that sold wholesale to retail dealers and they would ship almost daily. They actually would ship their stock to the next location they were going rather than carry it on them. It was cheaper for them to send 90k worth of coins or whatever overnight, than it was to take the risk of being robbed or keeping it with them in the hotel. I would tell you the whole place is a federal office. I have no idea if you are innocently asking or if yo are casing me out.

    I just spoke with my BIL and he assures me nothing in his contract makes his shop federal property in any way shape or form. He actually laughed because this is a topic that comes up often including with his business insurance. He has specifically asked this question. Perhaps when the guy said where the mail is, he meant the actual mail which is, once deposited, federal property (or at least in their control). A bag of mail in a contract station is federal property as are the postal machines, stamps, money order machines, and other equipment used to run the post office. Having federal property in your building does not make the real estate property federal property.
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    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    Whoops! My bad, sorry badbullgator. Back to the dunce cap.
    No worries my friend. Very few people have any understanding of contract stations.
    Look at it like this. Having a police sub station inside a Home Depot does not make the Home Depot a police station and prohibit you from carrying (at least not in Florida, other states may very). A little town I hunt in has a small sheriff station and holding cell inside a feed store. The feed store is not a jail or a police station and cc is perfectly legal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuva3rae View Post
    ...The federal law that prohibits carry in the regular post office and other federal facilities is 18 USC 930 Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities. It defines federal facility as follows:
    This is incorrect. The rules for Post Offices are found at 39 CFR 232.1 - Conduct on postal property
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    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    Interesting... I'll have to ask my guy about that.
    Please do. Maybe his contract is different but I lean towards "where the mail is" meaning the actual mail.
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    So from what I've read here I would be cool to CC and be just fine on my side of the counter?
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    Member Array Vuva3rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    This is incorrect. The rules for Post Offices are found at 39 CFR 232.1 - Conduct on postal property
    Thanks, didn't know that there was a separate law as well. The law you cited applies to “all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property” with the exception of real property leased to tenants and sidewalks that are indistinguishable from public sidewalks. I would think that this would not include contract postal units because USPS does not lease or control the space.

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