Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO

Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO

This is a discussion on Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was stopped tonight by an officer here in MO. We're not a must inform state, but I treat everywhere I go as a must ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array bigb360's Avatar
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    Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO

    I was stopped tonight by an officer here in MO. We're not a must inform state, but I treat everywhere I go as a must inform just as a general principle. The officer approached the car and I handed him my license and ccw permit and told him I was a conceal carrier and had my weapon on me. It was even in a console that was visible to him and I pointed it out.

    He then asked for the weapon to place on top of the vehicle, to which I told him I'd rather not due to 1) not wanting to be disarmed, 2) not wanting to grab the gun and move it around while it's loaded, and 3) not wanting to go for a gun with a cop standing right next to me.

    He took my licenses and came back and issued me a warning (phweh) but then told me the next time an officer asks for the gun, to give it or they'll call me in and revoke my ccw.

    I'm almost sure that's not the case, given that Missouri is a shall issue state with no duty to inform. Add to that the 4th amendment AND the 2nd amendment, and I don't see how he could do that.

    Does anyone here know? (I'm not looking to be lectured. We all have different philosophies on how far to allow the police to step on your rights).
    Last edited by bigb360; June 16th, 2013 at 11:18 PM.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    No, he's not full of crap. If you are stopped you can be disarmed. Dont be a twit--next time keep your mouth shut about your permit. If he asks you to get out of the vehicle and the gun is on your, tell him then. If its in the console, SHUT UP
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    Member Array bigb360's Avatar
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    No crime is being committed by having the gun in your car, and he'd know I'm a ccw holder when he runs my driver's license anyway. Then he'd be pissed I didn't inform him.

    Your 4th amendment rights don't disappear just because you're pulled over. Having a gun in your console isn't a crime in Missouri. So on what basis would they then revoke my ccw license?

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    Senior Member Array Fausty's Avatar
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    Yes he is within his rights to request your weapon while he conducts business. I suggest you do not inform if you do not wish to be possibly disarmed.

    I suggest you don't inform unless the officer requests to search your vehicle and you agree. You do not have to agree, but if you don't they may detain you and get a warrant. All depends.

    However, if you wish to continue doing things this way I suggest you seek legal advice from a local 2A lawyer.
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    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    I will hand over my gun no problem.I will not argue with the cops on the side of the road.If something turns into a problem,this is why we all need to know an attorney. I will ask the cop to put it in his car because I do not need scratches on my $50,000 car. Place it on top of the vehicle? That seems weird.
    tsmithlxix likes this.
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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    I've never been asked to hand over a firearm but if so asked by a police officer I expect I would comply. It's the wrong battle to fight and on the wrong battleground.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigb360 View Post
    No crime is being committed by having the gun in your car, and he'd know I'm a ccw holder when he runs my driver's license anyway. Then he'd be pissed I didn't inform him.

    Your 4th amendment rights don't disappear just because you're pulled over. Having a gun in your console isn't a crime in Missouri. So on what basis would they then revoke my ccw license?
    You just notified him you are armed,he can lawfully disarm you until the encounter is over,as far as your 4th amendment rights you might want to actually research the 4th amendment,
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  8. #8
    Member Array bigb360's Avatar
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    He can request the weapon, I'm aware of that. But I do not have to consent. Missouri law is silent, but the 4th amendment isn't. A traffic stop isn't carte blanche suspension of due process.

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    Member Array bigb360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    You just notified him you are armed,he can lawfully disarm you until the encounter is over,as far as your 4th amendment rights you might want to actually research the 4th amendment,
    I have. I know police don't have carte blanche authority to disarm you when you're following the law with the weapon. But I do wonder if he does have the ability to get the ccw revoked.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Fausty's Avatar
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    Clearly you are passionate about this. Do it your way.

    Once again, consult a local 2A lawyer before it blows up in your face.
    atctimmy, NONAME762, TVJ and 1 others like this.
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  11. #11
    Member Array bigb360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fausty View Post
    Clearly you are passionate about this. Do it your way.

    Once again, consult a local 2A lawyer before it blows up in your face.
    I'm really not that passionate really. I just am curious.

    Thanks for the responses.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Fausty's Avatar
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    You're welcome. Just remember, losing your rights because you you misinterpret them and get arrested is not worth it.
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    Member Array rjinga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    You just notified him you are armed,he can lawfully disarm you until the encounter is over....
    Based on what code section, statute, or law?
    pittypat21 likes this.
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    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    4A search doesn't apply. You told him already. Temporary seizure is reasonable. He has a legal right to take certain precautions to ensure his safety. Case law is on his side, and if he were to decide to press it, you could end up having a really lousy day. Guy sounds like he was actually pretty cool because he didn't press the issue. Talk to a lawyer, though, 'cause I ain't one.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigb360 View Post
    I was stopped tonight by an officer here in MO. We're not a must inform state ...
    No duty to inform, perhaps. That's only one aspect. But that relates to you taking the initiative to inform the officer.

    But if asked whether you have weaponry and asked to disarm or made to disarm, you have no recourse but to allow that. It's for officer safety, the temporary controlling of the weapon, and you can indeed be in a world of trouble for refusing or allowing that to be done, beyond any "notification" aspects to your state's statutes.

    And if you lie about having a weapon and are then found to have one (ie, via them knowing full well you have a CHL on file and your demeanor/nervousness/responses), you could land in the kettle for lying as well.

    Caution. "Duty to inform" has nothing to do with right to refuse to disarm or be disarmed for office safety when demanded to do so. And the claim that it's your 4A right to refuse ain't gonna fly, not in any court in the land (I'd bet).
    shadowwalker likes this.
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