When is a School not a School?

When is a School not a School?

This is a discussion on When is a School not a School? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So it's that time of year when installs in schools happen in our line of work. New school construction. No teachers, no kids, just sweaty ...

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    When is a School not a School?

    So it's that time of year when installs in schools happen in our line of work. New school construction. No teachers, no kids, just sweaty construction guys and gals.

    We are about to start one in Springfield and one of my employees asked if we can carry on this job. I told him no.

    His reply was "Well it's not a school until it's built and paid for".

    Told him I would do some research but I can't find anything definitive. Still advised him that it wasn't a good idea and that I would not be doing it. Have not been to the site yet to see if any gunbuster signs were posted.

    Interested to hear other perspectives.


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    I think this is very simple . The sign on the brick(s) says so, Just because work is being done in the school on off hours or summer break . School activities still happen at most schools. I think it is a long reach to assume otherwise. IMHO
    srings likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoveman View Post
    So it's that time of year when installs in schools happen in our line of work. New school construction. No teachers, no kids, just sweaty construction guys and gals.

    We are about to start one in Springfield and one of my employees asked if we can carry on this job. I told him no.

    His reply was "Well it's not a school until it's built and paid for".

    Told him I would do some research but I can't find anything definitive. Still advised him that it wasn't a good idea and that I would not be doing it. Have not been to the site yet to see if any gunbuster signs were posted.

    Interested to hear other perspectives.
    I think you just answered your own question. The construction site has been designated "school" by either the county, city or state or all three. You may not have even poured the foundation yet but the property is already classified and therefore would fall under the guidelines of restrictions for firearms I would think...
    There are two types of people who carry concealed weapons...Responsible ones and Irresponsible ones...which are you...

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    If you read the statute, you can not carry on school property or grounds. Since I am guessing the school district owns the property you are working on it would be a violation.
    MattInFla, srings and LenS like this.

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    If you're talking Springfield, Mass, I think you are making the right call. Mass law is pretty clear that unless you're an LEO, it is a felony to carry on school grounds. I wouldn't want to assume the DA won't consider the building a "school " during construction in regard to charging someone. And even if they dropped the charges, we always need to worry about "suitability" here in wonderful Massachusetts. We maintain our LTC at the pleasure of the COP.
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    A school is not a school when it's a public school.
    GH, GeorgiaDawg, locotest and 1 others like this.

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    In PA, you cannot carry on school property. If the school district owns it, you can't carry on it (although we have the weird "other legal purpose" clause that may actually allow carry). If your state's legal language mentions school property, I wouldn't risk it, especially in your particular state...
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    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    I would think that legally, it's already a school. No carrying on this job, sorry man. Of course you could always contact the local city or municipal office, or the school district, just to be sure. Just don't tell them why you're asking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoveman View Post
    When is a School not a School?
    My definition is: if it's a place tasked to the education if kids, it's a school. Shouldn't matter the stage of construction really, though an attorney might be capable of arguing to the contrary. Seems to me that when they call it a school or label it as such, then it is one, even if not yet opened.

    If you're a construction geek who's looking to tread that fine line, I'd ask a competent attorney.

    But for the average person, on the face of things at least, a school is a school, whether kids are there are not, whether it's fully built and labeled or not, etc.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; June 19th, 2013 at 04:42 AM. Reason: grammar, spelling
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayVandelay View Post
    A school is not a school when it's a public school.
    Clever.

    Not really germane to the discussion, but quite clever.
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    Here's a hypothetical question for y'all.

    You're a Framing Carpenter. You prefer the pneumatic nail gun. You use it to build the school. You're alone on the job site and 2 BG's wander up. They try to rob you and you're in fear of losing your life. You present and they rush you. You put 5 10 Penny nails in the first BG who goes down. The second BG turns tail, leaving his buddy and you and books outta there. How do any of you think this might play in court?
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    My Father, the long retired UCC Minister, used to show up randomly or not at the public schools I attended from Kindergarten through High School and was always willing to carry on a random conversation with whomever was roaming the hallways. Sometimes he would show up alone and sometimes he would show up with the Sheriff. Probably bad news or worse with the Sheriff.

    A real school, public or private, will engage learning and leadership with enlightenment style thinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    Clever.

    Not really germane to the discussion, but quite clever.
    Well to me it is because i know of at least 2 adults who carried guns when I was in a private high school. And that was Massachusetts. Also in general public schools are run by people who dont really work on the school campus and are out of touch with those who are on campus. Laws surrounding school zones are almost always feel good measures by city employees sitting behind a desk. Can I get a status update on my germaneness now?

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    Senior Member Array acepilot's Avatar
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    Let's throw this fly into the ointment. Here in Wisconsin, we have gun shows held in school gyms during school season. WI law prohibits firearms on school grounds, so I wonder what loophole they're using to allow guns on site...I'm guessing it's something like the school grants permission for the show??? I suppose it makes sense for the schools as I'm sure they make some cash by renting out the gym for the day or weekend.
    GSDSchutzhund likes this.
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