New CDC "gun control" report

New CDC "gun control" report

This is a discussion on New CDC "gun control" report within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Interesting findings; not at all what I expected, given the CDC's anti-gun bias in the past. If you can get past point #1, notice especially ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
Like Tree16Likes

Thread: New CDC "gun control" report

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array RicT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    616

    New CDC "gun control" report

    Interesting findings; not at all what I expected, given the CDC's anti-gun bias in the past. If you can get past point #1, notice especially points #5 & #7.

    Handguns, suicides, mass shootings deaths, and self-defense: Findings from a research report on gun violence. - Slate Magazine

    Disclaimer: I have not read the actual report yet.

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    8,907
    The so-called study is grossly in error; gun violence, gun suicide and gun homicide they are just blaming the device and not the criminal behind the gun.
    Warrior23 likes this.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black in S. FL.
    Posts
    19,702
    Well duh! How many millions of taxpayers dollars did we spend to come up with the obvious facts?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,981
    Compare it with the administrations talking points to see if they are building integrity or simply intent on settling for less after over reach.

  5. #5
    Lead Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    15,767
    The CDC long ago lost any credibility they ever had when they embraced the gun control platform. They have become nothing more than another social engineering mouthpiece run by ultra liberal socialists pushing an agenda.
    I want to have a job where the is no accountability,a job where I can do as I dang well please and make my own laws and act like a KING. I want to be on the Supreme Court.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    2,109
    Do not ignore #1, it is an important fact that we need to deal with.

    This is from #8
    The prevalence of firearm violence near “drug markets … could be a consequence of drug dealers carrying guns for self-defense against thieves or other adversaries who are likely to be armed,”
    And that is how you address #1.
    The drug war connection needs to be applied to our entire body of statistics. It is a huge source of illegal and violent activity.
    rammerjammer likes this.

  7. #7
    Member Array thrasherg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Maple Valley, Washington
    Posts
    236
    I have to ask, but most modern countries do not allow the public to own handguns, therefore the death rate from handguns should be lower in those countries, however I suspect the death rate from knives and other arms would be higher in those same countries as the people do not have access to firearms. Can we not get the death statistics for knives in the USA and other countries and show how much better we are (assuming our death rate from none firearms deaths is lower!!).. If people want to kill other people they will!!, they will use what they have to hand, be it handguns, knives, umbrellas or rocks..

    Gary
    Warrior23 likes this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,151
    Overall, these findings don't say anything different than what has already been known.

    Guns aren't the problem. The problem is people who use them for bad purposes.
    Warrior23 and ccw9mm like this.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    2,109
    Gary- we know that Great Britain gets a moral victory because they have almost no gun crimes. They also have almost no guns. What they do have is a high rate of violent crime: rape, armed robbery, assault... I forget the exact #, but in the USA, very few homes are burglarized while the owners are home. In G.B., it is something like over 40% (I don't have a source at the moment). Anyway, it's significantly higher. Why? No home defense firearms!

    So yes, Great Britain benefits from lower gun crime...as long as you don't mind a few extra rapes, muggings, and good old fashioned butt whoopings.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    31,313
    The CDC/NIH should stick to health evaluations, not arms and gun-control policies, and they should certainly not jump into such things for reasons of clearly politically-motivated "orders" from someone outside the organization.

    That said, some thoughts ...


    Quote Originally Posted by From the "report"
    1. The United States has an indisputable gun violence problem. According to the report, “the U.S. rate of firearm-related homicide is higher than that of any other industrialized country: 19.5 times higher than the rates in other high-income countries.
    One would expect a correspondingly higher rate of usage in any country with a higher rate of ownership.

    But one would expect a comparatively high incidence of felonious violence in a country with a higher rate of armed felons, no matter their means of arming themselves.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the "report"
    4. Handguns are the problem. Despite being outnumbered by long guns, “Handguns are used in more than 87 percent of violent crimes,” the report notes. In 2011, “handguns comprised 72.5 percent of the firearms used in murder and non-negligent manslaughter incidents.” Why do criminals prefer handguns? One reason, according to surveys of felons, is that they’re “easily concealable.”
    Violence is the problem. As the U.K. and other places show in spades, when a given type of weapon is rendered highly rare, crimes using other weapons can skyrocket. As well it might, unless violence itself is moderated. Lacking that, violent felons will simply switch to some other weaponry.

    Yes, the greatest incidence of effective weaponry leveraged by felons is the more-effective choice in the proverbial rock/paper/scissors game they play with their intended victims. Particularly in a society where an increasing percentage of citizens are arming themselves against crime, criminals are finding it increasingly "necessary" to their survival of such situations to arm themselves and use weaponry that'll "trump" the cards being dealt by armed citizens. About what one would expect. But, overall rates are down and keep going down, and that roughly parallels the increasing rate of armed citizens in each state. Hard to claim "handguns are the problem" simply because they happen to be the most-effective tool criminally misused by felons. It's little more accurate than saying "cars are the problem" simply because DUI felons choose to drive their mobile missiles while drunk.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the "report"
    6. Gun suicide is a bigger killer than gun homicide.
    Again, certain weapons tend to be more effective for one-time use. And as the stats show, if someone is intent on taking his/her life then some effective means will be found, even if that means doesn't happen to be a given tool. Plenty of people off themselves via jumping off bridges or slamming their cars into stone walls, drowning themselves, etc. And none of that implies we need to ban bridges, take away cars, or drain all bodies of water deeper than one inch in depth.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the "report"
    7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”
    Yup. A net gain, by a huge margin. Hard to grouse about a few thousand deaths here and there when there are multiple hundreds of thousands protected by such defensive arms each year. And that's the whole point of citizens arming themselves against crime. Sam Colt was right, regarding the tool being an effective equalizer for the average citizen. Nice of the CDC to point that out, instead of whitewashing the simple reality. Any evisceration of the 2A in this regard is going to render these hundreds of thousands of citizens effectively incapable of withstanding and surviving violent assaults against them. Makes no sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the "report"
    8. Carrying guns for self-defense is an arms race.
    Actually, it's a violence race. How quickly can we get on top of the increasing levels of violence in key areas of our felonious citizens' activities (ie, drug use/trafficking), and how effectively can we remain better-armed and armed to a greater percentage than they? That's basically what it comes down to. And any seeking to disarm citizens ahead of such violent felons reaching them is a recipe for disaster, helping to pave the way for such felons to succeed when they do target victims. Makes no sense, such policies of disarmament, beyond being patently unconstitutional.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the "report"
    9. Denying guns to people under restraining orders saves lives.
    People facing some piece of paper filed downtown that still have simmering violence within them will find some way to get to those deemed the cause of their ills, if they're able. And acquiring a baseball bat, knife, tire iron, or even a firearm from the local felon/fence unloading weaponry isn't all that difficult. Taking the "jilted one's" existing weapons at best only temporarily slows down the person before other weaponry is acquired. If that person is focused on committing an attack anyway, an attack will be made anyway. A pretty piece of paper and the existing pile of weapons being taken generally won't stop that.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the "report"
    10. It isn’t true that most gun acquisitions by criminals can be blamed on a few bad dealers. The report concedes that in 1998, “1,020 of 83,272 federally licensed retailers (1.2 percent) accounted for 57.4 percent of all guns traced by the ATF.” However, “Gun sales are also relatively concentrated; approximately 15 percent of retailers request 80 percent of background checks on gun buyers
    The missing link, here, is what percentage of violent felons acquired their firearms through FFL dealers, versus acquired them on the black market privately unbeknownst to the FFL's, the government, and the background check system. Harping about the background check mechanism is fine, so far as it goes, but that system self-selects for those who use the system. It doesn't account for the vast majority of violent felons' weaponry acquisitions, and so is pointless in attempting to equate to some cause of felons' possession of such items.
    Brad426 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,297
    Yet another useless "study" that we paid for with money we don't have.
    Manderinobyebye likes this.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    4,087

    Thumbs up Comprehensive report on gun violence

    I read an article on Slate.com (typically very anti-gun) about a gun violence study/survey that in their own words will have things that Obama and the NRA will love and hate. Here are the major takeaways from the 10 bullet points I read from the article from Slate and their interpretation of the study/survey.

    Handguns, suicides, mass shootings deaths, and self-defense: Findings from a research report on gun violence. - Slate Magazine

    2. Most indices of crime and gun violence are getting better, not worse.
    3. We have 300 million firearms, but only 100 million are handguns.
    5. Mass shootings aren’t the problem.
    6. Gun suicide is a bigger killer than gun homicide.
    7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively.
    8. Carrying guns for self-defense is an arms race.
    10. It isn’t true that most gun acquisitions by criminals can be blamed on a few bad dealers.

    In full...from Slate

    Background checks are back. Last week, Vice President Joe Biden said that five U.S. senators—enough to change the outcome—have told him they’re looking for a way to switch their votes and pass legislation requiring a criminal background check for the purchase of a firearm. Sen. Joe Manchin, the West Virginia Democrat who led the fight for the bill, is firing back at the National Rifle Association with a new TV ad. The White House, emboldened by polls that indicate damage to senators who voted against the bill, is pushing Congress to reconsider it.

    The gun control debate is certainly worth reopening. But if we’re going to reopen it, let’s not just rethink the politics. Let’s take another look at the facts. Earlier this year, President Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to assess the existing research on gun violence and recommend future studies. That report, prepared by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, is now complete. Its findings won’t entirely please the Obama administration or the NRA, but all of us should consider them. Here’s a list of the 10 most salient or surprising takeaways.

    1. The United States has an indisputable gun violence problem. According to the report, “the U.S. rate of firearm-related homicide is higher than that of any other industrialized country: 19.5 times higher than the rates in other high-income countries.”

    2. Most indices of crime and gun violence are getting better, not worse. “Overall crime rates have declined in the past decade, and violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past 5 years,” the report notes. “Between 2005 and 2010, the percentage of firearm-related violent victimizations remained generally stable.” Meanwhile, “firearm-related death rates for youth ages 15 to 19 declined from 1994 to 2009.” Accidents are down, too: “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”

    3. We have 300 million firearms, but only 100 million are handguns. According to the report, “In 2007, one estimate placed the total number of firearms in the country at 294 million: ‘106 million handguns, 105 million rifles, and 83 million shotguns.’ ” This translates to nearly nine guns for every 10 people, a per capita ownership rate nearly 50 percent higher than the next most armed country. But American gun ownership is concentrated, not universal: In a December 2012 Gallup poll, “43 percent of those surveyed reported having a gun in the home.”

    4. Handguns are the problem. Despite being outnumbered by long guns, “Handguns are used in more than 87 percent of violent crimes,” the report notes. In 2011, “handguns comprised 72.5 percent of the firearms used in murder and non-negligent manslaughter incidents.” Why do criminals prefer handguns? One reason, according to surveys of felons, is that they’re “easily concealable.”

    5. Mass shootings aren’t the problem. “The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths,” says the report. “Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” Compare that with the 335,000 gun deaths between 2000 and 2010 alone.

    6. Gun suicide is a bigger killer than gun homicide. From 2000 to 2010, “firearm-related suicides significantly outnumbered homicides for all age groups, annually accounting for 61 percent of the more than 335,600 people who died from firearm-related violence in the United States,” says the report. Firearm sales are often a warning: Two studies found that “a small but significant fraction of gun suicides are committed within days to weeks after the purchase of a handgun, and both also indicate that gun purchasers have an elevated risk of suicide for many years after the purchase of the gun.”

    7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.” But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, “because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.” Furthermore, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

    8. Carrying guns for self-defense is an arms race. The prevalence of firearm violence near “drug markets … could be a consequence of drug dealers carrying guns for self-defense against thieves or other adversaries who are likely to be armed,” says the report. In these communities, “individuals not involved in the drug markets have similar incentives for possessing guns.” According to a Pew Foundation report, “the vast majority of gun owners say that having a gun makes them feel safer. And far more today than in 1999 cite protection—rather than hunting or other activities—as the major reason for why they own guns.”

    9. Denying guns to people under restraining orders saves lives. “Two-thirds of homicides of ex- and current spouses were committed [with] firearms,” the report observes. “In locations where individuals under restraining orders to stay away from current or ex-partners are prohibited from access to firearms, female partner homicide is reduced by 7 percent.”

    10. It isn’t true that most gun acquisitions by criminals can be blamed on a few bad dealers. The report concedes that in 1998, “1,020 of 83,272 federally licensed retailers (1.2 percent) accounted for 57.4 percent of all guns traced by the ATF.” However, “Gun sales are also relatively concentrated; approximately 15 percent of retailers request 80 percent of background checks on gun buyers conducted by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.” Researchers have found that “the share of crime gun traces attributed to these few dealers only slightly exceeded their share of handgun sales, which are almost equally concentrated among a few dealers.” Volume, not laxity, drives the number of ill-fated sales.

    These conclusions don’t line up perfectly with either side’s agenda. That’s a good reason to take them seriously—and to fund additional data collection and research that have been blocked by Congress over politics. Yes, the facts will surprise you. That’s why you should embrace them.
    sealteam20001 likes this.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    8,818
    Already running here...

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...ol-report.html

    Edited to Add: Merged
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; June 24th, 2013 at 09:11 PM.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    4,087
    Jeez guys, there is a lot from the study that supports gun ownership.

    These are the bullet points from an article on Slate.com that I thought were more in our favor.

    2. Most indices of crime and gun violence are getting better, not worse.
    3. We have 300 million firearms, but only 100 million are handguns.
    5. Mass shootings aren’t the problem.
    6. Gun suicide is a bigger killer than gun homicide.
    7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively.
    8. Carrying guns for self-defense is an arms race.
    10. It isn’t true that most gun acquisitions by criminals can be blamed on a few bad dealers.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Suffolk, Virginia
    Posts
    610
    GUNS ARE NOT A DISEASE!!!

    Government agencies need to start understanding their own acronyms.
    msgt/ret likes this.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

cdc comprehensive report on gun violence
,

cdc concealed carry

,
cdc concealed carry report
,
cdc gun control
,

cdc gun control report

,

cdc gun report

,
cdc gun report slate
,
cdc report on guns
,
gun control cdc questions
,
new cdc gun report
,
new cdc report on guns
,
slate cdc gun report
Click on a term to search for related topics.