Is it important to draw fast - Page 2

Is it important to draw fast

This is a discussion on Is it important to draw fast within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally posted by AZG23 This is VERY true silvercorvette...but you should still have the skill set. I am glad that I have ABS breaks to ...

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Thread: Is it important to draw fast

  1. #16
    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    Originally posted by AZG23
    This is VERY true silvercorvette...but you should still have the skill set.
    I am glad that I have ABS breaks to bail me out if I wind up getting myself into a bad driving situation but hopefully my driving skills will keep from needing them. Anytime you get into a shootout it is usually a last resort. Most of the times we can avoid trouble before it happens. But sometimes there is no place to retreat to, or retreat is not an option. What if the unthinkable happens and you are in your house minding your own business when some low life breaks in. When that happens you hope your training becomes second nature and the stress of the encounter hopefully hasnít effected your ability to place your shots. Situational awareness is most important because there is a 2 out of 3 chance for a bad result, always think cover. If you are attacked out of the three possibilities only one is good. #1 good, You win bad guy dead you live. #2 bad, You die bad guy lives. #3 bad, It is a tie you both die, that is why you always think of cover in situational awareness. Just because you score the first fatal shot doesnít mean you had a favorable outcome. A person that is fatally wounded can take a long time to die and can continue the attack and the result can be a tie so you always have to consider the chances of a favorable outcome are only 1 in 3. So getting off the first fatal shot doesn\'t necessarly make you the winner.


  2. #17
    Member Array mike benedict's Avatar
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    I am and always have been a firm believer in a fast draw.

    I believe if you can execute a under 1sec. draw you have at least a fighting chance against someone who already has a weapon in hand.

  3. #18
    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    The key is draw and execute and protect yourself at all times. A fast draw in itself is useless unless you are able to execute. And the fact that you were able to execute doesnít mean that the attack has been terminated. Just remember that people donít die just because they are hit. It takes time. And when someone is attacking you seconds can seem like hours. Get you butt behind cover. If you are moving toward cover you become a harder target to hit. There is a six page thread in the 1911 forum about dumb gun stuff you see in movies.

    http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=99862&page=1&pp=40

    We have all seen 1911s that fire 50 to 100 times without a reload. But what about the scene where you see someone shot and they fall down and die? Many times it doesnít happen like that in real life. I donít hunt but from what I know from reading about it sometimes when you hit an animal it will take off and run for hundreds of yards even though you may track it down and discover you have scored a one shot kill. If an animal is able to survive long enough to run hundreds of yards after being hit with a powerful rifle bullet how long can a human continue to attack after being hit with a handgun bullet that is puny in comparison? I have learned a few things from my training as a cop and the most important thing I learned was take cover first. Or if you are caught off guard, take cover while you are drawing your weapon. If you are moving toward cover you are harder to hit, and when you get behind cover you had lessened the chance of the encounter ending up as a tie. I am a fairly good shot, but a few years after I became a cop in 1970 our department incorporated moving targets as part of our training. I was shocked at how much harder it is to hit a target moving at only 1Ĺ miles per hour in a straight line on a track. Imagine how much harder it will be to hit someone that isnít moving in a straight line.

    #1 Get behind cover before the attack, or better yet if you can get out of the area completely do so.
    #2 If things happen before you are behind cover then move toward cover as you are drawing your gun.
    #3 Fire off a shot while you are moving to rattle your attacker. You may get lucky and hit him but the odds wonít be good for you to score a hit while you are moving. You have to use good judgement on this one though, you donít want to fire wildly while moving if there is a chance that you will hit an innocent person. If you happen to be in a mini-mart you donít want to risk killing someone. But if your attacker is standing in front of a brick wall fire off a shot or two to shake him up as you head for cover.
    #4 Once you are behind cover you have the advantage, expose as little of your self as possible and hope your training pays off. Once you are behind cover you have lessened the chance of it turning out as a tie.

  4. #19
    Member Array scbair's Avatar
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    Was it the late Bill Jordan who noted the less time it takes to produce your sidearm, the more time you\'ll have to fire it accurately?

    To those who\'ve advocated situational awareness, having the weapon in hand before a threat becomes \"critical,\" noting and availing oneself of cover, etc., I simply say \"Amen, Brother!\"

    However, should I fail in the above, and only recognize the threat as it swoops in for the kill, I\'d rather be practiced in a smooth draw stroke than have to \"wing it.\" :O

    Elimination of wasted motion and repetitive, focused practice are the keys. When I was much younger, and lived in a rural area, I read a number of Skeeter Skelton\'s articles. I was particularly fond of his \"long-range\" and \"aerial\" shooting. As my small town\'s municipal garbage dump (yep, this was way before the \"sanitary landfill\" came into existence) was only a few miles from my home, and was in an isolated area, I gave the aerial targets a try. This was the only time and place I ever fired at glass targets; what difference could a few more shards of glass make at that dumpsite??

    At any rate, I eventually became pretty proficient. I would holster my sidearm, and take a glass jar in my right (shooting) hand. I would hurl the jar upward, then arc my hand to the sidearm, draw, sight & squeeze. I wasn\'t 100%, but I was a lot higher than 50% successful. When I entered law enforcement, my confidence in my ability to rapidly and consistently deploy my sidearm reduced the urge to draw, or even grip, the handgun during tense confrontations.

    Long-winded way to voice my \"yes\" vote on the importance of a smooth draw stroke.

  5. #20
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    randyc,scbair, silvercorvette and all the fine response from above;better than I had hoped for this is a great thread. Thanks to the fine police officers for giving us an important overview from their years of training and experience; boy nothing like hearing from the real mccoy. This is really a classroom session, just excellant presentations of what to think about when things go wrong. Thanks much everyone. If there is more keep it coming it will help our forum.

  6. #21
    Member Array nf9648's Avatar
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    On a two way range it is always better to give your opposition a sucking chest wound before he gives you one, and I wont draw on someone unless I find myself inevitably stranded in that situation. It is a necessity to at least practice getting your piece drawn and sights on target in a timely manner, it is something you can even practice in the convenience of your own home with the TV (dont shoot it, this is best with a cleared, empty handgun than a loaded one.)

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    NO.

    Hitting is important.

    Gun in hand when action starts beats fast draws.

    OODA

  8. #23
    Member Array hummel's Avatar
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    gun in a hand first doesnt this make you the aggressor? :huh:

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Not necessarily, hummel

    for example, I picked my wife up from Tampa Int\'l airport one night about 1am. The lights on the floor of the parking garage we were parked at went out. Emergency lights were on but didnt provide much light except at the elevators. This was a rather spooky experience for me and a real \'situational awareness'exercise. As I got out of my car, I simply put my pistol in a Mcdonald\'s bag held at about thigh level, kept my light in the other hand and walked to the elevator, met my wife, and walked back. Like I said, this was an exercise for the most part. I didnt so much notice anyone in particular that set off an alarm, but I did realize how far behind the curve I was gonna be IF something happened, and I wanted to give this method of \'gun in hand'a try. The gun was still concealed in plain sight, and I was not menacing anyone with it or brandishing. But, I was that much ahead of having to draw.
    Hope this helps,

    Dan

  10. #25
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    The Wyatt Earp reference is a good one. While the antis like to paint us as harkening back to the \"Wild West\" - the fact that so many persons were armed in those days does provide some parallels. The quick draw was of \"some\" value then - but the Gunsmoke quick-draw shootout was practically non-existent. For what I have read - ambushes, back shootings and the like seemed to be more the rule. And so I believe a state of sharp situational awareness to more valuable than a lightning draw. Drop your guard and all the speed in the world won\'t help. Look at what happened to Wild Bill. Though we don\'t use it much anymore - we humans DO have a sixth sense. Being constantly aware keys you in closer to that \"extra\" sense and may save your life. It\'s helped me more than once. If you haven\'t yet - read Gavin DeBecker\'s \"The Gift of Fear\". That book and Mas Ayoob\'s \"In the Gravest Extreme\" likely affected my outlook more than any other. Bill Jordan\'s \"No Second Place Winner\" was helpful too, but seemed to me to be more geared to law enforcement.

  11. #26
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    revlar good reading reference..thanks.:P

  12. #27
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    Take a look at the first two vids that clubsoda posted the link to. Notice the fact that quick alone isn\'t enough. You need to be quick but it is just important to move to make yourself harder to hit. In #1 he keeps moving till make a difficult target till he gets to cover. In #2 there is no cover so he keeps moving so he doesnít get hit. You would be surprised how much harder you are to hit if you keep moving. It is a good example of what I was trying to explain
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    posted on 1/5/2005 at 03:03 AM Reply With Quote Report Post to Administrator


    It\'s pretty quick. At that range with good training and lots of practice it\'s obtainable.

    I should post some video\'s of me and my shooting partner doing drills. In the meantime, here\'s some vids of James Yeager, the man who\'s outfit i trained under.

    http://www.warriormindset.com/Videos/Fight-to-cover.MPG

    http://www.warriormindset.com/Videos/Emergency%20Reload.MPG

    http://www.warriormindset.com/Videos/Tac%20Load.MPG

  13. #28
    Member Array mikaldulee's Avatar
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    Nice site. I made my 12 year old daughter watch it.

    \"Daddy, why didn\'t he wait to warn them?\"...They won\'t wait honey. Do you know what rape is...\"Yes Daddy\" (thats sad)

    \"How many times do you shot them honey?\"...\"Till they are dead daddy.\"

    Something worked...;)

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    I\'ve had the unlucky experience of drawing twice in the last year. Once was when filling in for the owner at a local gunshop, where I got the drop on a pair of kids trying to work up the courage to rob the counter. Speed meant I was able to pull fast enough after they refused to leave and escort them off premise. It meant that everyone won at the end of the day- nobody was hurt.

    The other time was when an idiot and two friends tried to carjack my beater while I was leaving a drive-thru window. He apparently wasn\'t a local, and discovered that Mr. Sig made a courteous fashion accessory pushed into the forehead through the open car window. Speed wins, again, nobody hurt. You don\'t reach for someone\'s car door when they\'ve already told you no more than once in this state.

    In both cases, neither would have been effective had I not noticed what was going on around me. I can hit a man-sized target reliably out to 50m rapid fire, which is no big deal to me. I\'m lucky enough to be able to pull fast when I need to as well, but nothing beats knowing what\'s going on around you.

    Typically, that will diffuse the situation long before the gun has to be displayed.

  15. #30
    Member Array silvercorvette's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rfurtkamp
    I\'ve had the unlucky experience of drawing twice in the last year. Once was when filling in for the owner at a local gunshop, where I got the drop on a pair of kids trying to work up the courage to rob the counter. Speed meant I was able to pull fast enough after they refused to leave and escort them off premise. It meant that everyone won at the end of the day- nobody was hurt.

    The other time was when an idiot and two friends tried to carjack my beater while I was leaving a drive-thru window. He apparently wasn\'t a local, and discovered that Mr. Sig made a courteous fashion accessory pushed into the forehead through the open car window. Speed wins, again, nobody hurt. You don\'t reach for someone\'s car door when they\'ve already told you no more than once in this state.

    In both cases, neither would have been effective had I not noticed what was going on around me. I can hit a man-sized target reliably out to 50m rapid fire, which is no big deal to me. I\'m lucky enough to be able to pull fast when I need to as well, but nothing beats knowing what\'s going on around you.

    Typically, that will diffuse the situation long before the gun has to be displayed.
    I don\'t think you draw in NY in the 1st instance, but you could justify #2 in NY. I guess the laws are diffrent in Idaho

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