My church carry up for debate

This is a discussion on My church carry up for debate within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not a new topic altogether but for me specifically, it is. I've been a worship leader (music minister if that's what you prefer) in my ...

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Thread: My church carry up for debate

  1. #1
    New Member Array DMBfan's Avatar
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    My church carry up for debate

    Not a new topic altogether but for me specifically, it is.

    I've been a worship leader (music minister if that's what you prefer) in my small church for several years. Aside from the most of 2012-spring of 2013 during my OEF deployment, I'm 100% committed to the direction and mission of my church. Upon returning from overseas, I got my CCW in order and in compliance with state law, I must receive approval from the pastor and/or the church governing body in deciding whether or not I can CC in church.

    Last week I brought the topic up to my pastor, asking for his approval in doing so. Personally, he didn't have a problem with it but felt it needed to go before the membership in a deciding vote as to whether church members should be allowed to CCW on church property. Regardless of approval, the decision would be added to be church bylaws. I am totally fine with the decision to take it before the membership. My only request is that in proposing the question to membership, I wished to remain anonymous should approval be granted, I didn't want people to specifically know "DMBfan" was carrying.

    A little background to digest: The church has numerous current and past military and law enforcement families in the congregation. It is not uncommon to see uniformed officers in the congregation before or after their shift and again, the church as strong military ties. Like stated above, I myself just returned from deployment.

    I'm really on the fence about how the vote will go. One part of me says that "concealed means concealed" and I shouldn't have brought it up. However, I'd rather not go down the road of not requesting such to the pastor out of respect for the LEO membership and not wanting my motives questioned.

    Have you dealt with this issue within your church? How was the reception? If you were denied the ability to CC in church, would that sway your opinion and personal direction within your church?

    Much thanks in advance for your input.

    Cheers and be safe,

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  3. #2
    New Member Array Hunter125's Avatar
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    I'm very interested in the responses you get here. I am a new pastor, just started at my first church in April, and I finally live in a state where I can get a CCW permit, having lived in IL before this. I have submitted all the paperwork for my permit, just waiting on it to come now. I have not broached the subject yet with my board and I'm wondering what the best way to go about it is. I too would like to carry in the building, though I'm not sure about during the service quite yet, but I am there alone during the week quite a bit as well. I won't carry there without their approval first, but I'm not sure I'm ready to ask just yet.

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    Can you lead worship in church effectively while having your attention divided enough to keep your SA appropriately elevated? Might be something worth pondering.

    I don't usually carry to church even though I legally can, and have my pastor's consent too.

    While I am there, the Lord has my FULL attention. If I get harmed because my awareness was lacking at that time, so be it. What I was doing was more important. I don't have any attention left over for being on watch duty also unless I am assigned to security detail that week. I just rely on those that are so assigned.
    smolck likes this.
    "Freedom and discipline have come to be regarded as mutually exclusive, when in fact freedom is not at all the opposite, but the final reward of discipline" - Elisabeth Elliot

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    Member Array EMTJosh's Avatar
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    I lead worship every Sunday with my Sig on my hip. Out of five guys on the leadership team, three of us carry. It was never even a discussion for us. If state law doesn't prohibit church carry, why would we?

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Sounds like you're approaching it in a good way. One thought, you may want to address it as a "voluntary security team" in which members may be discreetly legally armed. Most of those that may be hesitant about a concealed carry in church will be more acceptable of a "security team" keeping current events in mind.

    This would also open the door to a like minded group on the security team doing the necessary "what if" scenario discussions so it's a base reaction should a situation arise.
    perfection and BenGoodLuck like this.
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    Not an issue in Tennessee. We do not have prohibitions regarding church carry. Good luck! Once it is on the church record and assuming the members are in favor, it should be a one time process unless the decision is reversed later on. Surely it has also been on the minds of other members.
    perfection likes this.

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraySkies View Post
    Can you lead worship in church effectively while having your attention divided enough to keep your SA appropriately elevated? Might be something worth pondering.

    I don't usually carry to church even though I legally can, and have my pastor's consent too.

    While I am there, the Lord has my FULL attention. If I get harmed because my awareness was lacking at that time, so be it. What I was doing was more important. I don't have any attention left over for being on watch duty also unless I am assigned to security detail that week. I just rely on those that are so assigned.
    I lead worship while carrying.

    My SA obviously isn't as high, because I'm focusing on what I am doing, but I'd rather have it and be a little more behind the curve, than need it and only have a guitar for defense.
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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    Ex Member Array stylus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMBfan View Post
    Not a new topic altogether but for me specifically, it is.

    I've been a worship leader (music minister if that's what you prefer) in my small church for several years. Aside from the most of 2012-spring of 2013 during my OEF deployment, I'm 100% committed to the direction and mission of my church. Upon returning from overseas, I got my CCW in order and in compliance with state law, I must receive approval from the pastor and/or the church governing body in deciding whether or not I can CC in church.

    Last week I brought the topic up to my pastor, asking for his approval in doing so. Personally, he didn't have a problem with it but felt it needed to go before the membership in a deciding vote as to whether church members should be allowed to CCW on church property. Regardless of approval, the decision would be added to be church bylaws. I am totally fine with the decision to take it before the membership. My only request is that in proposing the question to membership, I wished to remain anonymous should approval be granted, I didn't want people to specifically know "DMBfan" was carrying.

    A little background to digest: The church has numerous current and past military and law enforcement families in the congregation. It is not uncommon to see uniformed officers in the congregation before or after their shift and again, the church as strong military ties. Like stated above, I myself just returned from deployment.

    I'm really on the fence about how the vote will go. One part of me says that "concealed means concealed" and I shouldn't have brought it up. However, I'd rather not go down the road of not requesting such to the pastor out of respect for the LEO membership and not wanting my motives questioned.

    Have you dealt with this issue within your church? How was the reception? If you were denied the ability to CC in church, would that sway your opinion and personal direction within your church?

    Much thanks in advance for your input.

    Cheers and be safe,
    I seems you're approaching the issue respectfully and correctly, I hope they approve.

    Since I'm not a fan of most gun-free zones, I wish you didn't even have to ask.

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    "Personally, he didn't have a problem with it but felt it needed to go before the membership in a deciding vote as to whether church members should be allowed to CCW on church property."

    Yes he did or he'd have said okay and let it go. You are about to open a can of worms that may not get closed. You need to decide what's most important for you: your self protection or having the approval of other church members.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Ksgunner's Avatar
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    Always carry, never tell.
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    Member Array HoosierLife's Avatar
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    My pastor wants as many people carrying as possible. I asked him if he cared if I open carried. He said he wouldn't personally, but said it was not his place to make a decision that the constitution has already made.

    Also, if you preach the Gospel, preach against sin and especially against Sodomite marriage you are a target (not too many churches preaching the whole counsel of God anymore, so most churches are probably safe). We have a "security force" at our church. Each guy that carries has a clear line of sight to his door/entrance. We also have guys that make regular rounds and check empty classrooms, bathrooms etc. We don't want pedophiles sneaking in and getting away with anything.

    Preachers sermon this morning was on Matt 7 about the wise man who built his house on a rock/the fool who built his house on the sand. America was built on the right foundation. We've let too many tear that foundation away and when the storm comes, the house will be destroyed.

    So be aware of your surroundings, even at church, especially if you preach the truth.

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    Seeking permission to carry in our congregation isn't really a possibility, so I would never bring it up.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    They passed out ammo this morning at my church. Then we praised the Lord. (Seriously, it happened)

    The ushers passed out the ammo as the congregation came in. Before praise & worship started the pastor asked does everyone have their bullet? He later said, it may have been easier to ask if anyone in the congregation needs a bullet because he know many of our members are armed. (You have to love a church & pastor that uses ammunition as a sermon aide!)

    JIC there are any namby pamby AG libs reading this post, don't worry they took the ammo up after service.


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    Member Array John_W_in_SC's Avatar
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    Why not seek God's opinion? There is quite a lot in scripture concerning deadly force and weapons in the House of the Lord. This would be a good place to start.

    Your tradition may already have a position, as may your denomination. Roman? Orthodox? Arminian? Reformed? (You can find Papal Encyclicals online, if that helps your research.)

    Your state's law may also have something to say, as others have already indicated.

    Please share your results. You're not the only one interested in this subject!



    John W in SC
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    They passed out ammo this morning at my church. Then we praised the Lord. (Seriously, it happened)

    The ushers passed out the ammo as the congregation came in. Before praise & worship started the pastor asked does everyone have their bullet? He later said, it may have been easier to ask if anyone in the congregation needs a bullet because he know many of our members are armed. (You have to love a church & pastor that uses ammunition as a sermon aide!)

    JIC there are any namby pamby AG libs reading this post, don't worry they took the ammo up after service.


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    Lol! Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition, literally!
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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