Considering carrying OC spray in addition to a gun.....or instead of one. :/

This is a discussion on Considering carrying OC spray in addition to a gun.....or instead of one. :/ within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Since I started carrying, I've only carried a gun...never a less than lethal option. But the Z trial and now this one with the agent ...

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Thread: Considering carrying OC spray in addition to a gun.....or instead of one. :/

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    Member Array thechriskarel's Avatar
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    Considering carrying OC spray in addition to a gun.....or instead of one. :/

    Since I started carrying, I've only carried a gun...never a less than lethal option. But the Z trial and now this one with the agent in Hawaii have me very very concerned. What's the point of carrying a gun if you're afraid to use it due to legal ramifications? Z got acquitted, but it took 1.5 years of his life away and now he'll have to hide forever. I mean, is that really living? I've seen other threads on here where the shooter defended themselves 100% legally and still had to move because of threats made to them and their family. And that's with a justified shooting. A shooting that is questionable at all, like Z's, basically will ruin your life. So, I'm thinking of either adding OC spray to my carry gun....or replacing my carry gun with OC. OC is almost 100% effective from what I've heard and it'll give u time to flee/get help.

    Thoughts?

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    Senior Member Array Haywood's Avatar
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    I always have Pepper Spray along with Two Snubs, Flashlight, small Knife, extra Ammo, Phone, Wallet, Money Clip, extra Batteries for the Flashlight, Earplugs, and my Keys. No matter what the Weather. The Pepper Spray saved my But when a big Boxer mix Dog thought I didn't belong on the Sidewalk. He was wrong and he lost. If Zimmerman had tried Pepper Spray first, the outcome may have been a little better for both of them.

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    Senior Member Array Oldpsufan's Avatar
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    It's a good option but I wouldn't trust my life with it. There are people out there that it just doesn't faze, druggies and the like. Also what if you are in windy conditions and you get it right back. It has also been shown that an assailant can keep on coming after he's been sprayed and do some damage. I'm not telling you not to carry it, but I'd get the best they have and back it up with a gun.
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    A gun also works great for a threat without pulling the trigger and draining your life savings and ruining your life. This is a worthwhile discussion. There's a lot of talk on this forum about tactics and how to survive an encounter with an assailant. There needs to be more talk about about surviving the attack and staying out of prison afterwards. I really wonder if Zimmerman was wishing there was no round in that chamber at this point. If there wasn't, he might have just drawn in and stuck it in T's ribs and said get off. Or maybe he might have just taking a more serious beating and gone back to life as he knew it.

    As it is, he isn't out of the woods yet. DOJ is now investigating Z for a civil rights trial for civil rights violation/hate crime. And then there's the civil trial with the family. But hey, he's alive right? No thanks, I'd rather be dead. I'd rather play the bluff with Treyvon of drawing a gun to deescalate the situation then pull that trigger. There are so many variables. My god, there's a woman in Florida that just got 20 years for firing a gun in her home. No one was injured.

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    VIP Member Array GhostMaker's Avatar
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    Speaking from the standpoint of a retire LEO, any spray OC or OC/CS is not 100% effective. I have sprayed numerous people and each reacted differently. Some even did not react whatsoever....it had no effect. All told I have probably sprayed somewhere in the area of 40+ people in real life situations. Replacing a CC Sidearm with OC is not a viable choice. Supplementing your CCW with OC is however a fairly reasonable choice that gives you a less than lethal option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechriskarel View Post
    Since I started carrying, I've only carried a gun...never a less than lethal option. But the Z trial and now this one with the agent in Hawaii have me very very concerned. What's the point of carrying a gun if you're afraid to use it due to legal ramifications? Z got acquitted, but it took 1.5 years of his life away and now he'll have to hide forever. I mean, is that really living? I've seen other threads on here where the shooter defended themselves 100% legally and still had to move because of threats made to them and their family. And that's with a justified shooting. A shooting that is questionable at all, like Z's, basically will ruin your life. So, I'm thinking of either adding OC spray to my carry gun....or replacing my carry gun with OC. OC is almost 100% effective from what I've heard and it'll give u time to flee/get help.

    Thoughts?
    My less-than-lethal option is my fist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thechriskarel View Post
    Since I started carrying, I've only carried a gun...never a less than lethal option. But the Z trial and now this one with the agent in Hawaii have me very very concerned. What's the point of carrying a gun if you're afraid to use it due to legal ramifications? Z got acquitted, but it took 1.5 years of his life away and now he'll have to hide forever. I mean, is that really living? I've seen other threads on here where the shooter defended themselves 100% legally and still had to move because of threats made to them and their family. And that's with a justified shooting. A shooting that is questionable at all, like Z's, basically will ruin your life. So, I'm thinking of either adding OC spray to my carry gun....or replacing my carry gun with OC. OC is almost 100% effective from what I've heard and it'll give u time to flee/get help.

    Thoughts?
    My best friend was murdered because he deployed his pepper spray instead of his gun, so I will admit to a bias and leave it that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechriskarel View Post
    What's the point of carrying a gun if you're afraid to use it due to legal ramifications? Z got acquitted, but ...
    You're right. If you are going to look at any engagement with the use of lethal force as being so risk as to not want that under any circumstances, then by all means seek other means of self-defense.

    Trouble is, that's toying with the ultimate game of rock/paper/scissors. You'll need to evaluate the various scenarios (in terms of what the BG [or BG's] happens to be armed with). Not all tools or defensive tactics are going to prevail against all of a BG's available choices. There's the rub.


    OC is almost 100% effective from what I've heard and it'll give u time to flee/get help.
    In many of the crime schools (aka prisons) and elsewhere, the word is many felons are taught how to work through the discomfort of sprays. Your average cretin might well not be capable of remaining effective if sprayed, sure, but you're playing with your very life if you are willing to bet on 100% effectiveness. And, even if you do happen to get the spray unleashed, it's entirely possible the violent felon facing you is armed in some other manner; no guarantees it still won't be used against you, even after the spraying.

    Sprays have their place. They're just not going to trump many of the tools out there, including the whole class of deadly weaponry that can be brought against you.

    Worth considering.

    That said, though, you've got a good point. The ramifications of any self-defense situation can be ugly, even dire. If we get it wrong, it can impact the remainder of our lives. But it needn't do so. Many, many people each year get through SD situations and survive the ramifications. You'll need to evaluate the pros/cons as to whether it's worth it to you. Everyone's different, in that regard.

    If you haven't already done so, pick up a copy of Ayoob's book, In The Gravest Extreme. It goes through most of these questions in some fair detail, to help folks appreciate it's often not all peaches and cream to "survive" while defending ourselves.
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    Size does matter. We all carry enough gear already. I did not want to add another item to my "Batbelt" and my pockets are already full of day to day stuff.

    I like the small key chain units that fit easily in a pocket. True, they don't have a great capacity but they are cheap enough that you can afford to replace them if you ever have to use one.

    Have it in your hand crossing a parking lot or if an "unsavory" sort approaches you at a gas station ect...

    If nothing else it can buy you some time to move and transition to another tool if necessary.
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    Member Array thechriskarel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Size does matter. We all carry enough gear already. I did not want to add another item to my "Batbelt" and my pockets are already full of day to day stuff.

    I like the small key chain units that fit easily in a pocket. True, they don't have a great capacity but they are cheap enough that you can afford to replace them if you ever have to use one.

    Have it in your hand crossing a parking lot or if an "unsavory" sort approaches you at a gas station ect...

    If nothing else it can buy you some time to move and transition to another tool if necessary.
    That was my next question....what size and brand does everybody recommend?

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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    OC is not 100% effective. That said I carry a can of Fox Labs in addition to my sidearm. Not everyone who might accost you deserves to be shot, but that doesn't mean I want to engage in fisticuffs if it's avoidable.
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    Member Array tet4's Avatar
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    Well, I started carrying a gun after having a kid and realizing that a) I have the responsibility for this other person, and b) if I were ever pressed into a situation where my family was threatened severely and immediately, what tool(s) would make the most difference? I would contend that if someone tried to hijack my car at a gas station with my kid strapped in the back, oc spray, knife, etc aren't going to make much of a difference. What I realized is that while oc spray may give you time to get away, what about the situations where you just can't get away? This is a big deal for people with loved ones and families. But also a big deal for anyone. What happens if you are attacked by someone and their first blow cripples a leg? After you oc them, what's next if you can't run away?

    Gun Facts - Gun Control | Facts | Debunk | Myths

    There's a chart in there about stats on success of resisting an attack with various tools. The only tool that statistically reduces injury vs not resisting at all is a gun. But, you have to make your own decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechriskarel View Post
    That was my next question....what size and brand does everybody recommend?
    Go with a size youre comfortable carrying. Even smaller canisters can get off at least five shots. Fox Labs is considered one of the best brands and is what I carry. It would help when making youre choice, to learn the different spray patterns available but I am not very well versed in that information.
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    In addition to, perhaps. Not in place of.

    Though I don't truly fault Zimmerman, to a certain degree he's paying a price for a mistake. I don't believe he had bad intentions, but following Martin and calling 911 was ill-advised. If, instead, he'd just been jumped by Martin with no prior contact, then likely this would never have made headlines.

    It's sad, but these days you have to keep your head down to stay alive. If you end up in the spotlight for a gun-related incident, you'll be portrayed as the devil.
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