Can you draw in this situation?

Can you draw in this situation?

This is a discussion on Can you draw in this situation? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So we hear about these reports of people getting jumped by a group of other people and the bystanders just watching. Is it lawful to ...

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    Member Array HoosierLife's Avatar
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    Can you draw in this situation?

    So we hear about these reports of people getting jumped by a group of other people and the bystanders just watching. Is it lawful to draw your weapon and tell the perpetrators to stop, put their hands up etc? What if it was just one person? How far are we allowed to go in the defense of another?


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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Yes
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    It is totally up to your state laws, your comfort zone, and the exact circumastances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierLife View Post
    So we hear about these reports of people getting jumped by a group of other people and the bystanders just watching. Is it lawful to draw your weapon and tell the perpetrators to stop, put their hands up etc? What if it was just one person? How far are we allowed to go in the defense of another?
    If you aren't legally justified to shoot, drawing is generally going to be a bad plan.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    Distinguished Member Array Dan060's Avatar
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    If i truly believe,someone is going to try and harm me,i would do my best to give them a warning.That said,whether they are armed,or not,they still try to harm me,i'm not telling them again.I will draw.I don't bother anyone,and,i expect the same.
    Oldpsufan and NONAME762 like this.

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    That's a really complicated one. I don't think it's generally unlawful to hold someone at gunpoint if they're violently attacking another, but it's a dicey situation both legally and "tactically" (for lack of a better word).

    Probably the best solution is to hose them all down with bear spray. Well, okay, not bear spray, but some kind of OC.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    With what we have heard and seen in the news lately . I'm not sure about anything at this point . I think the only thing i can say with more confidence if you had a gun pointed at you . Or coming at you with a gun .
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    It depends on your state laws. In South Carolina, we have the "alter ego" provision, which technically allows us to defend a second party if we believe their life is in danger. However, you then have to demonstrate that you had sufficient reason to believe that their life was in danger. There is high risk in doing this; If that person later testifies that they did not believe that their life was in danger, you're left swinging in the wind, defending yourself.

    It's not easy being a super-hero. Be sure to check your local state laws.
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    You absolutely must look at your own state laws (or whatever state law you happen to be standing in when it happens) concerning justifiable use of deadly force and determine that for yourself.

    The basic legal questions you need to ask (based on your question) are: Are you allowed, by law, to defend a third third party and what criteria needs to be met to justify the use of deadly force?
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    You can draw in any situation, but whether it legal or right to do so is another matter entirely. State law and your conscience may apply.
    archer51 likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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    I carry to protect my wife and myself. I would try to pay attention and be the best witness I could be for the police. My conceal carry permits do not make me a cop and I don't want to be one. good luck.
    Don't let the facts cloud your judgement.
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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    In Missouri if they're committing an "aggravated felony", felony assault being plenty aggravated, deadly force is legal. Even if they're fleeing from an aggravated felony deadly force is legal.

    The bottom line is to use your judgment, and generally it is a terrible idea to jump into a situation at any time before the very beginning, because you could shoot the wrong person and become a murderer. Don't count on the person who was getting beaten to back you either.

    Walking out of Lollapalooza II there was a gigantic guy holding a little girl with one hand, and smacking her in the face with the other. The crowd was kind of parting and moving around them with everyone heading to the exit, and no one was doing a thing about it. I put myself in between them (bad idea), grabbed the guys shoulders and said something like, "WHAT are you DOING?". He hit me in the mouth like a freight train (stiches and everything) and I went down. I got up kicked him in the knee, and quickly started winning (he was drunk and I wasn't). The next thing I knew the little girl was on my back trying to scratch my eyes out. Left some pretty deep scratches in my face. I threw her off, melted into the crowd, and had an EMT look at my mouth in the parking lot. He recommended the hospital, which is where they stitched me up. Getting "involved" always has it's risks, and you can assume nothing. I honestly would probably do the same thing today, I just wouldn't assume that it would be appreciated anymore than it was that time.
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    Now you know why LEOs hate domestic disputes. Both sides can turn on you.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierLife View Post
    So we hear about these reports of people getting jumped by a group of other people and the bystanders just watching. Is it lawful to draw your weapon and tell the perpetrators to stop, put their hands up etc? What if it was just one person? How far are we allowed to go in the defense of another?
    In a state that recognizes one's lawful authority to determine reasonableness (most states) of threat, and in which one truly believes one's life is at risk of loss, I'd say that's your answer: yes, absolutely.

    Of course, the sticky part of it is human nature. The "reasonable man" standard means you get to determine at the time, but others get to judge your actions based on what they believe a reasonable person would do in the same circumstances. Plus, you might well face a nasty DA who's pushing for notches on the belt (career-wise), or get a DA who's getting heavy pressure elsewhere to jump on you despite the evidence (a la the recent Z trial).

    As well, whether it's deemed reasonable might well depend not on what you knew at the time, but what others believe they appreciate would be the case. IOW, they might well deem a "group" to not inherently be a problem, whereas you might well feel you're simply not up to what that particular group was bringing. Or, they might not believe it's reasonable to use lethal force on someone who just clocked you while the "group" stands by watching, whereas were there and saw "the group's" demeanor, eyes, manifest intent to harm shining through their every pore.

    Good advice, above: know your state statutes, cold; know your DA and political environment in your community, with respect to how tolerant of SD they all are; and know that in any situation you're going to be questioned as to whether your actions were justifiable if others are downed and you're still standing.
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    Distinguished Member Array dben002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    You absolutely must look at your own state laws (or whatever state law you happen to be standing in when it happens) concerning justifiable use of deadly force and determine that for yourself.

    The basic legal questions you need to ask (based on your question) are: Are you allowed, by law, to defend a third third party and what criteria needs to be met to justify the use of deadly force?
    ^^^^^^^^^correctamundo....This man knows what he is saying......Every state is different when it comes to use of deadly force..You need to know these laws..in your own state or any states you are traveling in...In many cases you will be in deep do-do if you do draw and don't meet the standards of the law.........
    There are two types of people who carry concealed weapons...Responsible ones and Irresponsible ones...which are you...

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