WA State... Guns allowed on person while dropping off kids at school?

WA State... Guns allowed on person while dropping off kids at school?

This is a discussion on WA State... Guns allowed on person while dropping off kids at school? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, I've copied the entire page from here: Notice that I have underlined the text that I think pertains to my question. The text in ...

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Thread: WA State... Guns allowed on person while dropping off kids at school?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    WA State... Guns allowed on person while dropping off kids at school?

    So, I've copied the entire page from here:

    Notice that I have underlined the text that I think pertains to my question. The text in items 3(e) and 6 seems to be contradictory, but I might just be missing something. Any experts out there?


    RCW 9.41.280
    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;


    (b) Any other dangerous weapon as defined in RCW 9.41.250;

    (c) Any device commonly known as "nun-chu-ka sticks", consisting of two or more lengths of wood, metal, plastic, or similar substance connected with wire, rope, or other means;

    (d) Any device, commonly known as "throwing stars", which are multi-pointed, metal objects designed to embed upon impact from any aspect;

    (e) Any air gun, including any air pistol or air rifle, designed to propel a BB, pellet, or other projectile by the discharge of compressed air, carbon dioxide, or other gas; or

    (f)(i) Any portable device manufactured to function as a weapon and which is commonly known as a stun gun, including a projectile stun gun which projects wired probes that are attached to the device that emit an electrical charge designed to administer to a person or an animal an electric shock, charge, or impulse; or

    (ii) Any device, object, or instrument which is used or intended to be used as a weapon with the intent to injure a person by an electric shock, charge, or impulse.

    (2) Any such person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1)(a) of this section, the person shall have his or her concealed pistol license, if any revoked for a period of three years. Anyone convicted under this subsection is prohibited from applying for a concealed pistol license for a period of three years. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

    Any violation of subsection (1) of this section by elementary or secondary school students constitutes grounds for expulsion from the state's public schools in accordance with RCW 28A.600.010. An appropriate school authority shall promptly notify law enforcement and the student's parent or guardian regarding any allegation or indication of such violation.

    Upon the arrest of a person at least twelve years of age and not more than twenty-one years of age for violating subsection (1)(a) of this section, the person shall be detained or confined in a juvenile or adult facility for up to seventy-two hours. The person shall not be released within the seventy-two hours until after the person has been examined and evaluated by the designated mental health professional unless the court in its discretion releases the person sooner after a determination regarding probable cause or on probation bond or bail.

    Within twenty-four hours of the arrest, the arresting law enforcement agency shall refer the person to the designated mental health professional for examination and evaluation under chapter 71.05 or 71.34 RCW and inform a parent or guardian of the person of the arrest, detention, and examination. The designated mental health professional shall examine and evaluate the person subject to the provisions of chapter 71.05 or 71.34 RCW. The examination shall occur at the facility in which the person is detained or confined. If the person has been released on probation, bond, or bail, the examination shall occur wherever is appropriate.

    The designated mental health professional may determine whether to refer the person to the county-designated chemical dependency specialist for examination and evaluation in accordance with chapter 70.96A RCW. The county-designated chemical dependency specialist shall examine the person subject to the provisions of chapter 70.96A RCW. The examination shall occur at the facility in which the person is detained or confined. If the person has been released on probation, bond, or bail, the examination shall occur wherever is appropriate.

    Upon completion of any examination by the designated mental health professional or the county-designated chemical dependency specialist, the results of the examination shall be sent to the court, and the court shall consider those results in making any determination about the person.

    The designated mental health professional and county-designated chemical dependency specialist shall, to the extent permitted by law, notify a parent or guardian of the person that an examination and evaluation has taken place and the results of the examination. Nothing in this subsection prohibits the delivery of additional, appropriate mental health examinations to the person while the person is detained or confined.

    If the designated mental health professional determines it is appropriate, the designated mental health professional may refer the person to the local regional support network for follow-up services or the department of social and health services or other community providers for other services to the family and individual.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;

    (b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;

    (c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

    (d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district;

    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

    (f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

    (g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or

    (h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.

    (4) Subsections (1)(c) and (d) of this section do not apply to any person who possesses nun-chu-ka sticks, throwing stars, or other dangerous weapons to be used in martial arts classes authorized to be conducted on the school premises.

    (5) Subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section does not apply to any person who possesses a device listed in subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section, if the device is possessed and used solely for the purpose approved by a school for use in a school authorized event, lecture, or activity conducted on the school premises.

    (6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

    (7) "GUN-FREE ZONE" signs shall be posted around school facilities giving warning of the prohibition of the possession of firearms on school grounds.


    [2009 c 453 § 1; 1999 c 167 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 13; 1995 c 87 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 427; 1993 c 347 § 1; 1989 c 219 § 1; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 4.]
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  2. #2
    New Member Array tmoreau40's Avatar
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    Yep, that's how I read it. Picking up or dropping off.

    With subsection 6 I just assume that you can be ON school property but not IN the building. Hope that helps.
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    Before doing so you might one to check one thing first. Virginia law is similar, however you must remain the the vehicle. You can not exit it to retrieve the child.
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    VIP Member Array BenGoodLuck's Avatar
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    From reading the law, it seems one can get out of the vehicle but can't enter a school building:

    (6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
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  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Not contradictory. section 1 is refering to the premesis, 6 is refering to the building. Building not ok. Premesis, ok to pick up or drop off student.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    Not contradictory. section 1 is refering to the premesis, 6 is refering to the building. Building not ok. Premesis, ok to pick up or drop off student.
    So, the building is not part of the premises?

    EDIT (my emphasis added): premises n. 1) in real estate, land and the improvements on it, a building, store, shop, apartment, or other designated structure. The exact premises may be important in determining if an outbuilding (shed, cabana, detached garage) is insured or whether a person accused of burglary has actually entered a structure.
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  7. #7
    Member Array A1Fiddler's Avatar
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    Subsection 6 provides exceptions for carrying in buildings for Mil/LE, etc. but they specifically leave out state licensed CPL holders. You're allowed on campus, but not in the buildings.
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    No kids here so no problemo.
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Interesting, I never noticed that little detail about the building not being part of the exemption for CPL holders. I've always seen section 3 being quoted and referred to as its own entity:

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;

    (b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;

    (c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

    (d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district;

    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

    (f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

    (g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or

    (h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.
    In which case, the exemption applies for a person legally picking up or dropping off a student no matter where they are. The wording gets fuzzy when you add other sections in the written order because it doesn't appear that they apply. I guess that's why they say you should find an attorney to interpret law for you. If you find one, can you let us know what they say?

    In the meantime, I would play it safe, and not cross that doorway when you're delivering or retrieving your kids.



    Quote Originally Posted by NONAME762 View Post
    No kids here so no problemo.
    Ahh, well nevermind then. Thread over, whoever is out last should turn out the lights.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    Interesting, I never noticed that little detail about the building not being part of the exemption for CPL holders. I've always seen section 3 being quoted and referred to as its own entity:



    In which case, the exemption applies for a person legally picking up or dropping off a student no matter where they are. The wording gets fuzzy when you add other sections in the written order because it doesn't appear that they apply. I guess that's why they say you should find an attorney to interpret law for you. If you find one, can you let us know what they say?

    In the meantime, I would play it safe, and not cross that doorway when you're delivering or retrieving your kids.





    Ahh, well nevermind then. Thread over, whoever is out last should turn out the lights.
    That's just it... There is safe, and then there us 'safe'. Here, I believe the law makes a less safe situation. Gun in the car, or gun at home, or don't enter a building... the latter of which does not work for me because i have to scan my fingerprint and sign her in. Yes... I have to physically sign something after I provide a fingerprint... Some contorted logic will explain both of these.

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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Jemsaal's Avatar
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    I think you also skipped another part that would explain it:

    (f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

    In other words, you are exempt if you are 18, legally in possession of a firearm, and it is secured in an attended vehicle or concealed in a locked vehicle. This, plus (6), I think, makes it very clear that the gun must be left, concealed, in a locked vehicle.
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    Member Array Brig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemsaal View Post
    I think you also skipped another part that would explain it:

    (f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

    In other words, you are exempt if you are 18, legally in possession of a firearm, and it is secured in an attended vehicle or concealed in a locked vehicle. This, plus (6), I think, makes it very clear that the gun must be left, concealed, in a locked vehicle.

    Does anyone know if this is a new addition? I don't remember seeing this when I was looking into a job at a local school.

    I guess, get a safe and lock it up if you go in.

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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brig View Post
    Does anyone know if this is a new addition? I don't remember seeing this when I was looking into a job at a local school.

    I guess, get a safe and lock it up if you go in.
    I thought the same thing, but according to the scrawl at the bottom of the page the last modification was in 2009. At least if I'm interpreting it correctly... I'm not completely sure about that

    [2009 c 453 § 1; 1999 c 167 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 13; 1995 c 87 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 427; 1993 c 347 § 1; 1989 c 219 § 1; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 4.]
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    Member Array Brig's Avatar
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    Wow, good to know.

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    Weapons and Schools

    Exemptions

    Exemptions to state and federal prohibitions on possession of firearms are made for persons who are licensed by the state to carry a concealed pistol. The GFSZA provides an allowance for licensed persons to possess firearms within 1000 feet of a school, and state law allows those licensed to carry a concealed pistol to possess a firearm on school grounds while picking up or dropping off a student. State law prohibits loaded firearms inside school facilities except for security and law enforcement.

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