THIS Is The Last Danger To Life AFTER An SD Shooting: The Police:

This is a discussion on THIS Is The Last Danger To Life AFTER An SD Shooting: The Police: within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; PLEASE UNDERSTAND: I AM NOT POSTING THIS VIDEO TO DISCUSS THE INCIDENT DESCRIBED BUT ONLY TO ILLUSTRATE MY POINT : I've no idea of the ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 69
Like Tree49Likes

Thread: THIS Is The Last Danger To Life AFTER An SD Shooting: The Police:

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    buffalo NY
    Posts
    952

    THIS Is The Last Danger To Life AFTER An SD Shooting: The Police:

    PLEASE UNDERSTAND: I AM NOT POSTING THIS VIDEO TO DISCUSS THE INCIDENT DESCRIBED BUT ONLY TO ILLUSTRATE MY POINT:

    I've no idea of the Ins and Outs of this, I'm glad the man survived is all whether he was at fault or not. But in an SD Shooting once you've survived at attack you can't let your concentration relax because you have one more potentially lethal encounter to face and you have to be sharp.

    Police shoot unarmed man in his driveway - CNN.com Video

    For the sake of the illustration, let's assume there was a misinterpretation here even if the guy in reality flew at the cops.

    Or Even if the guy innocently made a move, or even did nothing and the police made a complete mistake: the point: the Police obviously did not arrive in order to shoot somebody because they enjoy that. Yet, they did. And with the adrenaline of a shooting in YOU and the adrenaline in the Police because they may face death as they arrive at a shooting YOU were involved in: put the two together and a deadly misunderstanding could easily occur. IT's NOT OVER YET.

    I thought we could review accepted steps after a shooting occurs to handle the arrival of police with as much safety as possible.

    I'll start and maybe others can add their own:

    -Immediately after a shooting if the perp is down and there is a weapon on the ground push it far away from the perp with your foot, then MOVE BACK and CHECK CAREFULLY with gun still at the ready: is he still a threat? I.e.: Has the danger been stopped? I mean to check visually and with some space in front of you. Don't move in to the prone figure all at once and bend over him.


    OK, anyone else? What should be next?


    (PS: Sorry I had to use a video not directly about the topic but a ballpark illustration of the danger of misinterpretation on all sides - but I don't know where any tape is that shows a real SD incident as the cops arrive)
    Last edited by detective; August 2nd, 2013 at 03:17 PM.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,575
    ...the neighbor who "watched the whole thing" lost sight of him...but told the camera that the man was complying even though I couldn't see him, I'm sure...what an idiot...he's not a credible witness...

    ...I see the connection to a SD shooting you're struggling to make here...but the man was in his own driveway...standing by his own car...
    ...the witness I want to see come forward is the one who's supposed to have called the law and reported a burglary...that would provide the officers with some foundation for what happened...time will tell...

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,000
    Move to a safe area nearby (within view and shouting distance of the scene of the shooting), where you have cover and something to your back.
    detective likes this.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member
    Array oldnfat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,398
    It seems there are more and more innocents being shot by police. When you make that 911 call be sure the dispatcher relays your description and clothing to the officers enroute. They need to know before they arrive on scene who the good guy is and what he looks like. Do not advance toward the officers, comply with their orders at once. Your hands should be empty and raised. Next?
    I shoot with a pistol and a Canon. We must all hang together amigos, or we will all hang separately. NRA life member.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,575
    ...I worked graveyards for a lot of years...made sure I had a light strong enough to SEE what was going on...20,000 CP...it stopped a lot of confusion...and the only hand movements were to cover their eyes...this would be a great time for a dashcam, but they probably didn't pull in behind him...
    5lima30ret likes this.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Mountains of Western North Carolina
    Posts
    1,325
    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...I worked graveyards for a lot of years...made sure I had a light strong enough to SEE what was going on...20,000 CP...it stopped a lot of confusion...and the only hand movements were to cover their eyes...this would be a great time for a dashcam, but they probably didn't pull in behind him...
    Amen!
    84160 likes this.
    Retired Police Lieutenant, Retired USAF Reserve, Glock Armorer, NC CWP, HR-218 Qualified
    Second generation American, Third generation Legionnaire
    "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phil 4:13

  8. #7
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    buffalo NY
    Posts
    952
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnfat View Post
    It seems there are more and more innocents being shot by police. When you make that 911 call be sure the dispatcher relays your description and clothing to the officers enroute. They need to know before they arrive on scene who the good guy is and what he looks like. Do not advance toward the officers, comply with their orders at once. Your hands should be empty and raised. Next?
    This is crucial PLUS ask 911 to stay on the line - though they likely will already.

    Anyone want to address where your gun should be when the police arrive and how you should stand, hands up, kneeling or not etc.? (You want to communicate "I'M SAFE" like a neon message.) Any suggestions on this question? Especially at night when visibility is not the best? Should the cell-phone now be out of your hand etc? (The devil is in the details....)
    I'll leave it to others to answer this general question but my overall tip: Assume nothing! The officers may have gotten the 911 transmission describing you but there may have been static, the sirens may have made that message hard to hear - Assume Nothing!
    Snub44 likes this.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,000
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnfat View Post
    It seems there are more and more innocents being shot by police. When you make that 911 call be sure the dispatcher relays your description and clothing to the officers enroute. They need to know before they arrive on scene who the good guy is and what he looks like. Do not advance toward the officers, comply with their orders at once. Your hands should be empty and raised. Next?
    Agreed. Once sure that the immediate danger has passed, holster your weapon (after reloading if necessary). When police arrive, keep your hands up and palms out.

    If, by chance, they arrive and see you while you're still holding the gun, DROP IT and put up your hands. Don't attempt to holster it, don't crouch and gently set it on the ground, drop it instantly. They don't know who the bad guy is when they show up, and every instant they see you holding a gun is an instant they spend considering whether or not to shoot you.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...the neighbor who "watched the whole thing" lost sight of him...but told the camera that the man was complying even though I couldn't see him, I'm sure...what an idiot...he's not a credible witness...

    ...I see the connection to a SD shooting you're struggling to make here...but the man was in his own driveway...standing by his own car...
    ...the witness I want to see come forward is the one who's supposed to have called the law and reported a burglary...that would provide the officers with some foundation for what happened...time will tell...
    I dont know... The witness seemed credible to me. His statement provided continuety, and obvious flow of the entire incident. I'd LOVE to have such a witness on my behalf. He'd be discredited if he claimed to be able to see things that would have been impossible from his position.

    We've discussed this aspect of a self defense shooting before. Members already commenting have covered it well. When the police arrive SHOW YOUR HANDS!... Drop your gun!, put up your hands!, comply with the police instructions!

    As far as the described incident... My opinion is that the police over reacted. Breaking into a car is not a crime that authorize the use of deadly force. I could see one officer mistakenly firing one shot, but 15? Even if the man refused to comply with instructions (described by the sheriff as orders) they still cant shoot someone for it. IMO This is some strait up police state stuff.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5,622
    Its all in the hands man. If your hands are clearly visible and no where near your weapon and you are compliant instantly with officers instructions you SHOULD be ok. Or not
    Snub44 and blitzburgh like this.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,575
    ...them's the rules, all right, but some folks make their own, it seems...

    ...I'm with Spuk on this one...I smell old fish...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Its all in the hands man. If your hands are clearly visible and no where near your weapon and you are compliant instantly with officers instructions you SHOULD be ok. Or not
    Ghost1958 and Secret Spuk like this.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5,622
    It kinda seems we all sort of assume that we will be standing there cell phone used to call the good guys wondering how to make sure the good guys dont shoot us,,, totally unscathed, checking our surroundings for more threats with a steely eyed gaze

    Reality is we may well have won the fight but still be shot, knifed wounded barely standing or not standing at all. Maybe not even able to call LE ourselves. I think keeping that in mind, that shot isnt down and down isnt dead so we dont panic and do something stupid to get ourselves shot by LE could go a long way in living to see the next sunrise also.
    Of course if we are totally out of it even though we won the fight its in the hands of the angels I guess.
    Snub44 and maxwell97 like this.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,575
    ...from the video: "I lost sight of him. His head dipped out of vision. I think he was complying. I don't have any doubt even not being able to see what was going on, that he was complying with them. Maybe not in the time frame that the officer was looking for but it seemed he was complying."

    ...ignore that the REPORTER said he was "watching the events unfold" and "in the hail of gunfire, HE thought Middleton was only hit twice"...the reporter's putting words in his mouth

    ...what did the "witness" say?...he didn't SEE anything...he's opinionating...witnesses tell what they see and hear...this guy has no value as a witness...

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    I dont know... The witness seemed credible to me. His statement provided continuety, and obvious flow of the entire incident. I'd LOVE to have such a witness on my behalf. He'd be discredited if he claimed to be able to see things that would have been impossible from his position.

    We've discussed this aspect of a self defense shooting before. Membars already commenting have covered it well. When the police arrive SHOW YOUR HANDS!... Drop your gun!, put up your hands!, comply with the police instructions!

    As far as the describes incident... My opinion is that the police over reacted. Breaking into a car is not a crime that authorize the use of deadly force. I could see one officer mistakenly firing one shot, but 15? Even if the man refused to comply with instructions (described by the sheriff as orders) they still cant shoot someone for it. IMO This is some strait up police state stuff.
    ...I'm wondering if he "lunged at them with a shiny object"...how'd the blood get on his front seat where he was standing??? I hope the state does a good job on this one...
    Secret Spuk and blitzburgh like this.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,575
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    It kinda seems we all sort of assume that we will be standing there cell phone used to call the good guys wondering how to make sure the good guys dont shoot us,,, totally unscathed, checking our surroundings for more threats with a steely eyed gaze

    Reality is we may well have won the fight but still be shot, knifed wounded barely standing or not standing at all. Maybe not even able to call LE ourselves. I think keeping that in mind, that shot isnt down and down isnt dead so we dont panic and do something stupid to get ourselves shot by LE could go a long way in living to see the next sunrise also.
    Of course if we are totally out of it even though we won the fight its in the hands of the angels I guess.
    ...now that's real!!! the "rules" help us plan...but the whole plan may go out the window...one night I broke some rules that I'd chiseled in stone in my training and "plan"...and because I did I escaped getting shot twice within about a minute...
    ...we're still better off to consider and role play and train...and come up with some options which have worked for others...
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...now that's real!!! the "rules" help us plan...but the whole plan may go out the window...one night I broke some rules that I'd chiseled in stone in my training and "plan"...and because I did I escaped getting shot twice within about a minute...
    ...we're still better off to consider and role play and train...and come up with some options which have worked for others...
    Absoloutly!!!! It's like you read my mind.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

leaving the scene of a sd shooting

Click on a term to search for related topics.