The TERRY STOP . . . The Stop and Frisk . . . The drama reigns on . . . thoughts?

This is a discussion on The TERRY STOP . . . The Stop and Frisk . . . The drama reigns on . . . thoughts? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This has been in the news for quite some time. Apparently, Police Officers in NYC are under fire for stopping minorities and a ruling has ...

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Thread: The TERRY STOP . . . The Stop and Frisk . . . The drama reigns on . . . thoughts?

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    Member Array BSAC2013's Avatar
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    The TERRY STOP . . . The Stop and Frisk . . . The drama reigns on . . . thoughts?

    This has been in the news for quite some time. Apparently, Police Officers in NYC are under fire for stopping minorities and a ruling has come down for an independent monitor of the NYPD. What is everyone's thoughts? Especially LEOs . .

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    Ex Member Array IndianaSig's Avatar
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    What source are you citing for your assertions?

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    Member Array BSAC2013's Avatar
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    what are you asking?

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    My thoughts, 4th Amendment.
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    There are no thoughts. All sworn officers are suppose to be color blind besides didn't you not read recently - being white is now the new minority? So the story could not possibly be true.
    " Life is tough and it gets tougher if your stupid." John Wayne.

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    what does the 4th amendment have to do with stopping someone that you think is armed or about to, in the process of, or just finished committing a crime? (Terry Stop)

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaSig View Post
    What source are you citing for your assertions?
    Here's a representative one: New York's Stop-and-Frisk War Has Reached the Breaking Point - Philip Bump - The Atlantic Wire
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    Police state its on the rise, they are dismantling the bill of rights as we speak!

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    I'm not the OP on this one, but I'm guessing it might have something to do with a court ruling on the "Stop and Frisk" policy.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/ny...anted=all&_r=0
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSAC2013 View Post
    what does the 4th amendment have to do with stopping someone that you think is armed or about to, in the process of, or just finished committing a crime? (Terry Stop)

    Articulable probable cause, not stop anyone you feel like ago you can make your quota.

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    My thoughts on this are very mixed. On the one hand I truly believe that enforcing quality of life laws and keeping
    a firm eye on things reduces the burden of more severe crime. OTOH, I also firmly believe that lots and lots of stops
    are racially motivated and unjust, always have been and may continue so no matter what the courts have done.

    P.S. I think Terry was a fairly unfortunate ruling from the perspective of civil liberties.
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    Senior Member Array Dan060's Avatar
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    I have a couple of very close friends that are LEOS.They are good people.That said,do i believe there will be a couple of LEOS that will stop people just because of race and or color?

    Just as sure as the sun rises from the east it's going to happen.

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    Also, she found that during police stops, blacks and Hispanics “were more likely to be subjected to the use of force than whites, despite the fact that whites are more likely to be found with weapons or contraband.”
    Really? I suspect the judge would have a difficult time defending this statement.

    Mr. Bloomberg pledged that lawyers for the city, in appealing to the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, would argue that the judge was biased against the police. As evidence, he cited the fact that the judge, who has overseen numerous stop-and-frisk cases over the last decade, had encouraged the plaintiffs to steer the Floyd case into her courtroom by marking it as related to an earlier case she had overseen.

    The mayor said the judge did “not understand how policing works” and had misinterpreted what the Constitution allowed.
    The city would seem to have a good chance for a reversal by the Second Circuit. The judge making this ruling is clearly biased against law enforcement and in favor of coddling minorities.

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    Articulable probable cause, not stop anyone you feel like ago you can make your quota.
    |

    006. Not sure where you got your law degree but a Terry Stop does not require Probable Cause. It does require Reasonable Suspicion of the officer that a person that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous." that is a far cry from probable cause to arrest.

    In regards to your comment about "making a quota" in all my years of LE I never had one, I could arrest as many people as I wanted to no matter what their ethnic background or color of their skin. Hate to tell you but if you are working in say Chinatown there is are pretty good odds that you will stop, arrest or detain mainly people of Chinese decent. Same thing goes with Compton where the majority of people who live there are probably, just guessing here mind you, are of African American decent.

    Yes are their officers who stop a black guy walking in a "white neighborhood"? Sure. Same thing goes for a white kid in the housing authority. Is it fair, just who knows. Does it lead to an arrest for a crime meeting the criteria mentioned in case law stated above? Yep sure does.

    I hope they get it all worked out without tying the officers hands more than they already are.
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    Personally I dont think LEs hands are tied quite tightly enough on this R S thing.

    An officer cannot articulate how they came to the conclusion that a person is about to do anything until that person actually starts the act of committing said crime. Before that they have no business stopping a person. Even if their crystal ball is right and they stop the person before they start to commit the crime they have accomplished nothing. The person isnt going to say yep officer I sure was goin to break in that store. Slap the cuffs on me.

    They have not even prevented anything either. The person will simply wait until they are sure they are gone or move to another location and do whatever crime they meant to anyway.

    Trying to claim otherwise is simply claiming that putting on a badge also gives one the ability to tell the future.

    Which is more BS than RS.
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