MWG call minus the gun

This is a discussion on MWG call minus the gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Greetings to all. I found myself in a similar situation as described in the St. John v. McColley (D.N.M. Sept. 8, 2009), sans the fact ...

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Thread: MWG call minus the gun

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array LostScout's Avatar
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    MWG call minus the gun

    Greetings to all.

    I found myself in a similar situation as described in the St. John v. McColley (D.N.M. Sept. 8, 2009), sans the fact that I did not posses a gun. It all happened real fast, so I did not have time to any “I do not consent …” stuff.

    The St. John v. McColley provides: “Defendants lacked a justifiable suspicion that Mr. St. John had committed a crime, was committing a crime or was about to commit a crime. Indeed, Officer McColley conceded that he did not observe Mr. St. John committing any crimes and that he arrived at the theater with the suspicion that Mr. St. John was merely “showing a gun”, which is not illegal in the State of New Mexico. Nor was there any reason to believe that a crime was afoot. When they found him, Mr. St. John was peacefully sitting through the previews for his second movie of the day. Officers had no reason to believe that Mr. St. John had been, was, or would be involved in any criminal activity whatsoever.” http://ia700400.us.archive.org/22/it...72397.48.0.pdf

    Minnesota case law provides: “Based on Paige, we hold that police had a reasonable, articulable suspicion that Timberlake was engaged in criminal activity based on the reliable informant's report that Timberlake was carrying a gun in a motor vehicle.” STATE [of Minnesota] v. TIMBERLAKE

    In State v Timberlake, a passerby had seen Timberlake dropping a gun inside a car at a gas station and called the cops. Minnesota court declared this as “reliable informant's report.” So, anyone in Minnesota can make a MWG call and cops have the right to harass you, point guns at you and arrest you, etc.

    I am pretty confused what is the law of the land here in Minnesota. So many federal cases rule that LEO has no legal right just to stop or detain a person carrying a firearm at their discretion, yet that is what they do all the time.

    I was sitting in a waiting room for my appointment a few days ago (I’ve been a client for years), when several cops approached me and yelled me to put my hands on top of my head and interlace the fingers. My hands were handcuffed behind my back and I was slammed against a wall and “patted down.” Everything I had in my pockets was removed, and the cops went through all my stuff. One took my car keys and went to search my vehicle. Luckily they did not turn off my recorder, so I have the full “arrest” on tape. The incident took less than an hour.

    I do posses a MN carry permit, but did not have a firearm on me when the cops attacked me, yet the call was a MWG call to which the cops responded.

    In Minnesota the “ban sign” does not prevent me for entering the premises. Only after an employee tells me to leave, I have to depart for not to trespass. The cops did not know this law, and were inventing laws as the time went by; some were real hilarious. More important, the establishment was not even posted. And, again, I was not armed.

    I ended up with a trespass notice that prevents me from entering the premises of said establishment, like I’d ever go there again.

    Any legal minds on board to help to clarify the law for me? I know that lots of details are lacking (and I apologize for that), but I can’t provide more at the present. I hope members merely accept my story either as a hypothetical or truth for the sake of educational discussion.

    Thank you.

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  3. #2
    Member Array Zralou's Avatar
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    I'm curious as to why there was a MWG call if you didn't have a gun with you?.

    Sara Lou
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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like several attorneys are going to make quite a bit of money off of this one.
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    I too am confused about how a MWAG report came about when you weren't even armed.

    Also, once the issue is resolved, it'd be interesting to hear the recording of the incident if you're comfortable with posting it.
    Aceoky likes this.
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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Do not post any thing more till you talk to an attorney!
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    ^^^^^^
    Yep. Talk to a Minnesota attorney, and leave it between you and your attorney. Good luck.
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    Ex Member Array Mr B's Avatar
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    You need to give us a little more here. If you did not have a gun, why did someone call the police saying you did ???.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...GET A LAWYER...save the tape...soon as they found out you didn't have a gun on you (and I'd want to see/hear the official 911 call, and your lawyer will, if there IS one)...they should have apologized and let you go...
    ...if the trespass notice is based solely on what the police did(the show put on there), your lawyer might get it rescinded...

    ...sounds to me like somebody has it in for you...keep us informed as you sort through it...please...
    Quote Originally Posted by LostScout View Post
    Greetings to all.

    I found myself in a similar situation as described in the St. John v. McColley (D.N.M. Sept. 8, 2009), sans the fact that I did not posses a gun. It all happened real fast, so I did not have time to any “I do not consent …” stuff.

    The St. John v. McColley provides: “Defendants lacked a justifiable suspicion that Mr. St. John had committed a crime, was committing a crime or was about to commit a crime. Indeed, Officer McColley conceded that he did not observe Mr. St. John committing any crimes and that he arrived at the theater with the suspicion that Mr. St. John was merely “showing a gun”, which is not illegal in the State of New Mexico. Nor was there any reason to believe that a crime was afoot. When they found him, Mr. St. John was peacefully sitting through the previews for his second movie of the day. Officers had no reason to believe that Mr. St. John had been, was, or would be involved in any criminal activity whatsoever.” http://ia700400.us.archive.org/22/it...72397.48.0.pdf

    Minnesota case law provides: “Based on Paige, we hold that police had a reasonable, articulable suspicion that Timberlake was engaged in criminal activity based on the reliable informant's report that Timberlake was carrying a gun in a motor vehicle.” STATE [of Minnesota] v. TIMBERLAKE

    In State v Timberlake, a passerby had seen Timberlake dropping a gun inside a car at a gas station and called the cops. Minnesota court declared this as “reliable informant's report.” So, anyone in Minnesota can make a MWG call and cops have the right to harass you, point guns at you and arrest you, etc.

    I am pretty confused what is the law of the land here in Minnesota. So many federal cases rule that LEO has no legal right just to stop or detain a person carrying a firearm at their discretion, yet that is what they do all the time.

    I was sitting in a waiting room for my appointment a few days ago (I’ve been a client for years), when several cops approached me and yelled me to put my hands on top of my head and interlace the fingers. My hands were handcuffed behind my back and I was slammed against a wall and “patted down.” Everything I had in my pockets was removed, and the cops went through all my stuff. One took my car keys and went to search my vehicle. Luckily they did not turn off my recorder, so I have the full “arrest” on tape. The incident took less than an hour.

    I do posses a MN carry permit, but did not have a firearm on me when the cops attacked me, yet the call was a MWG call to which the cops responded.

    In Minnesota the “ban sign” does not prevent me for entering the premises. Only after an employee tells me to leave, I have to depart for not to trespass. The cops did not know this law, and were inventing laws as the time went by; some were real hilarious. More important, the establishment was not even posted. And, again, I was not armed.

    I ended up with a trespass notice that prevents me from entering the premises of said establishment, like I’d ever go there again.

    Any legal minds on board to help to clarify the law for me? I know that lots of details are lacking (and I apologize for that), but I can’t provide more at the present. I hope members merely accept my story either as a hypothetical or truth for the sake of educational discussion.

    Thank you.
    357and40 likes this.

  10. #9
    Member Array NECCdude's Avatar
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    Hmm, interesting event. It makes me wonder if I'd get a police visit just for wearing my holster without a gun in it (which I do when at a prohibited place - I leave the gun locked up in the car but continue to wear the holster since I'm too lazy to take it off). Something to think about.

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    My holster (without gun) has been found on pat downs a time or two going into the courthouse, never been a problem. I, like Paul Harvey would like to hear the rest of the story.
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    Ex Member Array LostScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    I too am confused about how a MWAG report came about when you weren't even armed.

    Also, once the issue is resolved, it'd be interesting to hear the recording of the incident if you're comfortable with posting it.
    Yup, I'm comfortable with it, but not right now as you can understand. It would be nice to get feedback on the legal issue (laws/cases) though.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array LostScout's Avatar
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    Someone went nuts and suspected it, it's my guess. (This was for Sara)

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    Ex Member Array LostScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntkb View Post
    Do not post any thing more till you talk to an attorney!

    Thus the lack of details.

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array LostScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ^^^^^^
    Yep. Talk to a Minnesota attorney, and leave it between you and your attorney. Good luck.
    I still would love some expertise regarding the laws and legal precedents, but it seems that it's jus better follow your advice. I'm kind of cuious why my lack of detaisl makes a troll (how is it allowed to bash another poster like this here?) when even a simpleton would comprehend that I can't go into details with this yet. Enough said. Thank you for the advice and good lucks.

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    MNGunTalk.com ? View topic - Handcuffed at doctor's office, MWG incident

    Seems to be the thread other posters are referring to about him being a troll.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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