On Campus Carry Legal in my unique situation?

On Campus Carry Legal in my unique situation?

This is a discussion on On Campus Carry Legal in my unique situation? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think I have found a unique situation where I can carry on a campus I frequent also without violating law or school policy. I ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
Like Tree15Likes

Thread: On Campus Carry Legal in my unique situation?

  1. #1
    Member Array abigno99's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    111

    On Campus Carry Legal in my unique situation?

    I think I have found a unique situation where I can carry on a campus I frequent also without violating law or school policy.

    I frequently use the gym at Old Dominion University, but I am not a student at that school. The school's weapons policy (i.e. does not have the force of the law) states:

    A. Old Dominion University’s students, employees, volunteers, and invitees may not carry firearms, weapons, or related devices on campus.
    C. This policy does not apply to conceal carry permit holders unless the permit holder is also a student, employee, volunteer or invitee.
    And the regulation, which does carry the force of law, states:

    8VAC65-10-20. Possession of weapons prohibited.
    Possession or carrying of any weapon by any person, except a police officer, is prohibited on university property in academic buildings, administrative office buildings, student residence buildings, or dining facilities, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational events. Entry upon the university property described in this section in violation of this chapter is expressly forbidden.
    Now, I am neither a student, employee, volunteer, or invitee as per their definitions. A campus map provided by ODU shows that their gym is neither an academic building, administrative office building, student residence building, or dining facility. It would follow, that I am not barred from legally carrying to the gym by either of these provisions? Does that sound correct?

    I would call campus police, but I'm assuming I will get a flat "no" regardless of what the actual law is.


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array IndianaSig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    733
    No, it is not correct. In legalese, by permitting you on the property, you are a de facto invitee. Invitee, in their policy, doesn't mean an invitation in the literal sense.

    A better course of conduct would be to quit trying to wordsmith a way around the intent of their policy and leave your gun in your vehicle or somewhere else off of their property.
    phreddy, Taurahe, Paco23 and 3 others like this.

  3. #3
    Member Array abigno99's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaSig View Post
    No, it is not correct. In legalese, by permitting you on the property, you are a de facto invitee. Invitee, in their policy, doesn't mean an invitation in the literal sense.

    A better course of conduct would be to quit trying to wordsmith a way around the intent of their policy and leave your gun in your vehicle or somewhere else off of their property.
    From their policy:
    “Invitee” means any person other than an employee coming on campus for a business purpose, or in connection with the performance of a contract with the University. Solely for the purpose of this policy, the term does not include members of the general public including family of students, and alumni and former students of the University.
    I would think I'm considered a "member of the general public".

    I will not carry there unless I have a local lawyer say "yes, you are not restricted by any policy or regulation". If the law permits carrying there, I would rather do so than not. There is enough crime surrounding the university (which is where I have to park to go to the gym) to make carrying worth while.

    Here is the policy: Office of Academic Affairs
    And the regulation: Office of Academic Affairs

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,869
    IANAL, but here's a couple of points. Is Old Dominion a public institution (state-operated) or private? If private, you are indeed a public invitee. If public, then you are the "public."

    I agree that asking the campus PD will get a resounding "No way, Jose." A lawyer versed in VA firearms law would be your best bet. Or you can forget all about it and live dangerously once in a while.
    Aceoky likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,887
    I am somewhat confused how "regulations/statutes do not carry the force of law" that is a new one (to me) . By definition regulations and statutes ARE laws AFAIK everywhere in the US. Now being you don't fit into "forbidden by regulation"(possibly) that is another thing altogether but I'd be shocked to find that regulations were not laws

  6. #6
    Member Array abigno99's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    111
    OldVet: It is a public institution.

    Aceoky: A regulation does have the force of law, whereas a policy does not. This was confirmed by our current AG when issuing an opinion on policies against concealed carry on campus at a public institution. I simply included the policy because it's interesting that it appears I am not forbidden by regulation or policy. And the fact that I in no way would want to violate ANY prohibition (regulation or policy), lest I cause problems for myself or CCers as a whole.

    At the end of the day, I would really prefer to carry wherever and whenever I can. I'm sure most of us wish that were the case. I will for sure not be carrying in this situation unless I have a certain go ahead from someone knowledgeable about the law. But, it's interesting that it appears I have found a very unique situation that would allow me to carry in a place that one would, in most cases, NOT be allowed to carry in.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member
    Array farsidefan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,739
    If you can get Bill Clinton to work for you I think you have a shot. After all, he did NOT ...
    Typos are for the entertainment of the reader. Don't let it go to your head

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis IN
    Posts
    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaSig View Post
    No, it is not correct. In legalese, by permitting you on the property, you are a de facto invitee. Invitee, in their policy, doesn't mean an invitation in the literal sense.

    A better course of conduct would be to quit trying to wordsmith a way around the intent of their policy and leave your gun in your vehicle or somewhere else off of their property.
    This Here^^^^^^^^^
    Why tempt fate... leave the gun at home or find a new gym
    BigCityChief likes this.
    ”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”
    ~Daniel Webster

    Your points are shallow... my points are Hollow....

  9. #9
    VIP Member
    Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    6,335
    Quote Originally Posted by abigno99 View Post
    I think I have found a unique situation where I can carry on a campus I frequent also without violating law or school policy...
    I don't think you found anything which supports your claim.
    BigCityChief and Hopyard like this.
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
    NRA Life Member
    GOA Life Member


    Behave Like Someone Who is Determined to be FREE!

  10. #10
    Member Array Paco23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bluegrass, KY
    Posts
    74
    I would just leave it locked up and not take the risk.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    907
    I dig it man. Keep rocking.

  12. #12
    Pro
    Pro is offline
    Member Array Pro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Mass.
    Posts
    342

    On Campus Carry Legal in my unique situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaSig View Post

    A better course of conduct would be to quit trying to wordsmith a way around the intent of their policy and leave your gun in your vehicle or somewhere else off of their property.
    Um, no. Just find another gym. Problem solved. It's pretty clear to me original poster wants to be able to possess his firearm there.
    Aceoky likes this.
    Minimum government, maximum freedom.

    NRA - Member
    GOAL - Member

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Suffolk, Virginia
    Posts
    609
    ODU is not only not gun friendly, they are downright gun hostile.

    Don't carry there. They will bring the law in on it and even if you win, it will cost you time, aggravation, and money.

    They kind of made up my mind for me not to take evening classes there.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,887
    My mistake I now see the "policy" and the regulation

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array BigCityChief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    555
    Quote Originally Posted by abigno99 View Post
    I think I have found a unique situation where I can carry on a campus I frequent also without violating law or school policy.

    I frequently use the gym at Old Dominion University, but I am not a student at that school. The school's weapons policy (i.e. does not have the force of the law) states:



    And the regulation, which does carry the force of law, states:



    Now, I am neither a student, employee, volunteer, or invitee as per their definitions. A campus map provided by ODU shows that their gym is neither an academic building, administrative office building, student residence building, or dining facility. It would follow, that I am not barred from legally carrying to the gym by either of these provisions? Does that sound correct?

    I would call campus police, but I'm assuming I will get a flat "no" regardless of what the actual law is.
    Why would you want to carry a firearm on a campus where your firearm would be most unwelcome? Rather than parse words, you should realize the intent of the campus regulations. As for the gym, why wouldn't you consider it an academic building? Credits in Physical Education are earned there regularly, As for Campus Police, if you are certain of the logic of your reasoning, you should have no problem contacting them. Do yourself a favor and either visit ODU unarmed or not at all.
    Retired LEO
    NRA Member

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •