September 23rd, 2013 07:55 PM
Concealed Carry Necessity
Being old and retired, I don't want some Drunked-up Bubba, or two deciding to give me a 'beat-down', because I looked at him wrong, or whatever.
It would be Butt-Embarrassing to take a bare-fisted 'Whoopin, with a .45 strapped to my side (but less painful than spending a year in court, $60K in legal fees, then a $100K civil suit, loosing my house and maybe going to prison, anyway).
During my LE career, I was taught to carry an intermediate weapon in order to avoid shooting unarmed people and dogs charging with unknown intent.
We were given a 'Baton', then O.C. Pepper Spray, some used Tazers, Mini Mag lights, etc.
We are all far more likely to find ourselves in a fist-fight we don't want with a huge bully, than being attacked with a deadly weapon.
Myself, I always carry a 2.0 oz canister of 2% O.C. Pepper Spray by Fox Labs with an SHU rating of at least "2 Million SHUs".
They make them in key chain carry and leather holsters for belts.
The little 2 oz can will drop 10 full-sized men quite easily and quickly. They are also handy for 'Dog Attacks' since you don't have to legally wait for the dog to bite you.
Many places like Walmart, etc., sell phony 10% Pepper Spray, but doesn't work well at all. Get a different Proven name-brand if you like from a local LEO as there are other good brands. (LEOs have to be 'hosed' by their carry brand (as training) and can answer any questions.
I get mine directly from the maker as it will likely be fresher and replace it every few years according to the exp. date on the bottom of the can.
During my career as a Trooper, I have probably used it 35-40 times (mostly on drunks) and it was far more effective than my expandable baton.
Just put your free hand out, so the perp doesn't rush in and grab it while 'hosing' the clown.
Check your state laws for legalities.
If you want real LEO training, put on a sweatshirt and have a friend give you a 1 second blast to your face with your eyes open. That's it.
Should you find yourself instantly blind with a snot-soaked-shirt and praying for death, then you got the right stuff (lasts 10-20 minutes)... have a garden hose handy and running.
Here is where I get mine: Fox Labs International ,but your LGS may carry it as well or other brands like "Guardian", etc.
It is a small investment for the safety of yourself and loved ones.
September 23rd, 2013 08:10 PM
Being retired myself an in Florida I would not hesitate to shoot someone who is attacking me. The key is not to instigate the problem. I would not get into a argument with any stranger. I do not start conversations with strangers nor do I butt into conversations. So if someone is attacking me it has to be for reasons of their making i.e. Robbery, drunk, or just nuts. At my age a solid punch from an attacker could kill or disable me or my wife so sorry if able they will be shot before that can happen.
September 23rd, 2013 08:14 PM
My old retired butt considers to 2 or even one young big bubba wanting to beat on me a threat of serious bodily harm or possibly death and a disparity of force due to bad heart and degenerative spinal disease which I will deal with accordingly and within the legal parameters of my state.
I dont carry pepper spray.
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
September 23rd, 2013 08:23 PM
Having an intermediate sort of deterrent force (or availability of a "force continuum") is certainly wise.
If you can't avoid or "escape" a violent confrontation, it's a good idea to have a means of de-escalating the encounter without necessarily having to resort to shooting.
I always have both instantly-accessible OC spray and an instantly-available and ready edged weapon, also often an impact weapon, in addition to a sidearm. (Yes, I know the edged weapon is unlikely to be needed, and is considered a potentially lethal weapon, but who knows; I'd rather be prepared, personally.)
September 23rd, 2013 09:20 PM
100% agree with the OP. After doing a lot of research I chose Fox Spray too for my non lethal carry option.
"If there is trouble, I stay here to help you. For your father -- for your father."
September 23rd, 2013 09:52 PM
I have never carried or tried this pepper spray 35 years ago I went to training on a CS gas you had to have a license to carry or buy it. I wasn't happy with it and could fight through it.
Other than a closed space are there any other short comings to using this pepper spray? I would guess it could buy you time to retreat also while seeking cover and presenting your gun.
September 24th, 2013 05:54 AM
Though that does seem like a good idea, I reckon I'll stick to pressing a trigger rather than pressing a button.
"Everybody gets knocked down in life. How you choose to get back up is up to you!"
September 24th, 2013 09:08 AM
There is a difference in "less than lethal" and non lethal - pepper spray and tazers CAN be lethal FWIW
September 24th, 2013 09:24 AM
The fear of going to jail for defending one's self is far greater than the actuality of doing so. People always like to imagine the worst.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
September 24th, 2013 09:24 AM
I'm asthmatic I want a weapon that works on the other guy more than it works on me.
September 24th, 2013 09:39 AM
I have a can of the crowd control size FOX in the bottle holder of my bike. I need to get a smaller carry-friendly canister I can carry on a belt. I was hosed with this sort of stuff years ago in order to be able to carry it on duty. I don't think I could tolerate it now.
FOX makes a great product. Works on dogs too.
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Devastation to your doorstep in 30 Minutes or Less. Minuteman III--- SAC WILL BE BACK!
I like all kinds of foreign guns. Walther, SIG-Sauer, and H&K
September 24th, 2013 10:46 AM
Good luck with spraying all your attackers with your irritating chemical after you are already receiving a potentially deadly beating. I hope for your sake that all of your attackers will react the way you envision them reacting.
I wonder if your chemical spray would have helped this man?
Group of Men Savagely Beat 70-Year-Old Man Outside 7-Eleven for No Apparent Reason | Video | TheBlaze.com
or this man?
Cops: Teens' ?Knockout Game? led to the brutal beating death of a 51-year-old Syracuse man - NewsChannel 9 WSYR
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September 24th, 2013 11:02 AM
Not approving of the knock out game but I won't shed any tears over a "high level sex offender"
September 24th, 2013 11:25 AM
I'm afraid of hosing myself rather than a BG. For that reason I carry a stick IF its needed. Much more confident of my ability with it.
September 24th, 2013 11:46 AM
As an LE, you were required to enter situations where non-lethal force was potentially warranted. Your department required the use of non-lethal force for several reasons, including protecting the department from civil liability. As a private citizen, our primary objective is to avoid confrontation. But if someone is attacking me, I will do whatever is necessary to stop the attack and protect myself.
Originally Posted by patri0t
How did we "find" ourselves in a fist-fight? If we did everything to avoid the situation, or if we had no chance to avoid the situation, than deadly force is warranted to stop a potentially lethal attack in which we fear for our life.
Originally Posted by patri0t
And a young attacker beating an elderly person is engaging in a potentially lethal attack. Pepper spray is ok as an additional defensive weapon, but I'm not giving up my EDC weapon.
Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)
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