CCW @ New Mexico Balloon Festival
This is a discussion on CCW @ New Mexico Balloon Festival within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I started with that Balloon Festival site and the rest of the day have been search everywhere near and far on every forum. I even ...
October 3rd, 2013 02:38 AM
CCW @ New Mexico Balloon Festival
I started with that Balloon Festival site and the rest of the day have been search everywhere near and far on every forum. I even tried to call the Balloon Festival head quarters they have an answering service and was unable to get to anyone at the actual head quarters. I then call Albuquerque Police Department and was directed to many people who finally got me to a substation who used to work security at the Balloon Festival. When I asked about carrying my weapon concealed EVERYONE said, "wow I've never had that question before." In short I have the name and number of the substation of the last Officer I spoke with and he said "Well, you've definitely done due diligence and I can't find anywhere it says you can't. I would just stay out of that beer garden that's for sure. And watch for signs if they now have no weapons up this year as you've heard other have carried in the past."
Now the sticky details that make me nervous. The answering service would not let me talk with anyone in charge of the Balloon festival or anyone in charge of security. They kept giving me crap answers and flat out bad advice that would put me in jail. I kept asking finally the guy got back on the line and said, "sir, leave your gun at home." I said, "who said this?" he said, "My boss." I said, "Who is your boss?" He said, "It doesn't matter." I said, "It most certainly does as the boss of an answering service has no authority to make decisions unless given the authority to do so." He said, "Sir, walk up to the gate and ask! Have a nice evening!" and he slammed the phone on me. I told the Officer this and he agreed with me and said to ignore it.
Apparently the security is supposed to be searching people this year. The Office I spoke with said, "they are not supposed to be patting people down (as if it's illegal for them not being the police). So if there's no sign and they are not saying no guns or weapons if it's concealed your good to go. The only problem would come if you get spotted which if you conceal well you shouldn't." He also said "if at all possible at an event like this since you have a license if I were you I'd carry." So that made me feel better however wouldn't the world be awesome if all cops were like him!
Well I conceal well, However, I really like being on the good side of the law and not being one of those youtube morons who walk up to people "I have a gun and I have rights so deal with it because you can't do anything." And then not getting tased either that would suck.
SO who's been there recently or is there right now who can help me out? I leave for this Friday night. I just need to know what's going on
October 3rd, 2013 02:38 AM
October 3rd, 2013 02:44 AM
I would think they should be more worried about people with pointy sticks than CCW holders.
I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.
October 3rd, 2013 07:12 PM
October 3rd, 2013 07:25 PM
Frankly given what I've heard about ABQ police I'm surprised at how supportive he was. As a fellow NM CHL holder, I'd say you're probably fine. Worst they can do is kick you out.
October 4th, 2013 01:15 PM
Know your state's law on where you are prohibited to carry. The law would not REQUIRE you to call a management company to find out...but there must be a sign at the entrance instead. If NM law prohibits you from going into a place that serves alcohol, then stay out of the beer garden like the cop said. In a nutshell, watch for "No weapons" signs and avoid alcohol.
October 4th, 2013 02:02 PM
The answers to most, if not all of your questions can be found here:
The sad irony of asking everybody involved with the venue in which you wish to carry in for permission is that once someone verbally tells you no, you are prohibited by law from carrying there, even if there is no signage present. Had you kept your mouth shut and your gun concealed, it would have remained legal for you to carry there.
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
October 4th, 2013 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Mike1956
Nations crumble from within when the citizenry asks of government those things which it might better provide for itself... Man is not free unless government is limited... As government expands, liberty contracts.
October 4th, 2013 10:08 PM
I trust and use that site, but I'm investigating their interpretation on "No Gun" signs in NM. AFAICT they're missing several important details. I contacted a lawyer recommended by the NRA about it, waiting for a reply.
Originally Posted by Mike1956
October 5th, 2013 05:12 AM
As I remember, the Balloon Fiesta Park is owned by the City of Albuquerque and they would need to clearly post per NM law if guns are forbidden. If you have been to the NM State Fair you should have noticed the signs at all entrances forbidding firearms, but the Fair Grounds are State Property. I'd carry as I have on many occasions. Never have a seen a sign at the Balloon Fiesta.
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October 6th, 2013 09:31 PM
I'm I hope I'm not coming off like a jerk but I usually do. I do know the laws for New Mexico. I'm sorry if I left out which laws I was referring to I was in the mind set that New Mexican's would jump in and give me a hand telling whether or not there are signs.
that is very good for quick reference how ever if you go to the main page it reads "We are a Database of Information on Carrying Firearms legally for Self-Defense. That is all we will try to be." For New Mexico if you want it straight from the horses mouth use this link.
Mike1956: The answers to most, if not all of your questions can be found here:
The sad irony of asking everybody involved with the venue in which you wish to carry in for permission is that once someone verbally tells you no, you are prohibited by law from carrying there, even if there is no signage present.
New Mexico One Source of Law®
You just need to click on the drop down menu to the left and find section 30. And I do understand about asking and I was worried about messing things up for others in the future.
If you go to the link I posted above and read 30-7-3 about selling alcohol for consumption you will find it does not talk about the situation I was walking into. 1) until I called I didn't know there was a "beer garden" for all I knew alcohol could be around the entire event 2) in which case I would need to know the annual gross receipts and if alcohol sales exceeded 60% of that. 3) And if that is the case no where does the law require a place to post a sign telling me that. So just showing up with no signs I could have been in the wrong.
9BPLE: Know your state's law on where you are prohibited to carry. The law would not REQUIRE you to call a management company to find out...but there must be a sign at the entrance instead.
From what I have been told from police, judges, lawyers and who ever else I can ask 1) it has yet to be challenge in courts 2) since New Mexico do not give specs on the no guns signs like Texas or other states no guns is good enough 3) the bigger question that has yet to be challenged is the laws says the no guns sign must be "...in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms..."
brocktice: but I'm investigating their interpretation on "No Gun" signs in NM.
azretired Thank you for your response and you are still able to carry there if you have a valid license even though I didn't
The point of this post is that I live 3 hours away and knew that I would have a possible 1.5 mile walk to the gate that I would have to make 2 more times to put my gun back in the truck if I was unable to carry. I check on this every long trip I make to prepare myself much like one would with packing, checking the weather, etc. I have been thanked many times for doing this and have yet to be that person to have a mass shut down on carrying. Most people find it respectful and some have liked the extra security while I was there.
Mike1956: keep your mouth shut.
October 8th, 2013 10:18 AM
Read more carefully, it refers to the laws on No Trespassing signs, which DO have specific requirements. It says they must be posted in accordance with that section. I'll find the specific laws later and post them. Unfortunately, neither 2A-friendly NM lawyer I've contacted so far has returned my calls.
Originally Posted by jwarrenjr
Posting from my phone, I blame all typos on Swype.
October 9th, 2013 05:33 PM
If the cop told you to go ahead then you are probably ok. Only bummer would be if you got there and they were patting people down (in WA State they can do that at events and they usually allow you to be patted down or have the metal detector wand) and discovered your gun they could deny you entrance. If you don't live far away then it wouldn't be a big deal to take it home then go back again but if you do live quite a distance away I would probably just leave it at home so it's a non issue.
October 9th, 2013 07:25 PM
Don't ask, Don't tell.
Looking over the references given, and handgunlaw. I would reasonably believe you would be alright.
Mi. is definitely more clear on situation such as this.
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn
October 11th, 2013 11:14 AM
I have a call with a lawyer referred by the NRA this afternoon. Here are the relevant bits of law that I intend to ask about w.r.t. the no gun signs in New Mexico. IANAL and regardless of what I find out you should talk to your own. I suspect there may be case law that sheds more light on the subject as the laws are (IMO) poorly written and leave a lot unsaid.
As used in the Criminal Code [30-1-1 NMSA 1978]:
A. "great bodily harm" means an injury to the person which creates a high probability of death; or which causes serious disfigurement; or which results in permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any member or organ of the body;
B. "deadly weapon" means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; or any weapon which is capable of producing death or great bodily harm, including but not restricted to any types of daggers, brass knuckles, switchblade knives, bowie knives, poniards, butcher knives, dirk knives and all such weapons with which dangerous cuts can be given, or with which dangerous thrusts can be inflicted, including swordcanes, and any kind of sharp pointed canes, also slingshots, slung shots, bludgeons; or any other weapons with which dangerous wounds can be inflicted;
30-7-1. "Carrying a deadly weapon".
"Carrying a deadly weapon" means being armed with a deadly weapon by having it on the person, or in close proximity thereto, so that the weapon is readily accessible for use.
History: 1953 Comp., § 40A-7-1, enacted by Laws 1963, ch. 303, § 7-1.
30-7-2. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon.
A. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon consists of carrying a concealed loaded firearm or any other type of deadly weapon anywhere, except in the following cases:
(1) in the person's residence or on real property belonging to him as owner, lessee, tenant or licensee;
(2) in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person's or another's person or property;
(3) by a peace officer in accordance with the policies of his law enforcement agency who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978];
(4) by a peace officer in accordance with the policies of his law enforcement agency who is employed on a temporary basis by that agency and who has successfully completed a course of firearms instruction prescribed by the New Mexico law enforcement academy or provided by a certified firearms instructor who is employed on a permanent basis by a law enforcement agency; or
(5) by a person in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued to him by the department of public safety pursuant to the provisions of the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978].
B. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the carrying of any unloaded firearm.
C. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
History: 1953 Comp., § 40A-7-2, enacted by Laws 1963, ch. 303, § 7-2; 1975, ch. 134, § 1; 1985, ch. 174, § 1; 2001, ch. 219, § 13.
29-19-12. Rules; department to administer; reciprocal agreements with other states.
The department shall promulgate rules necessary to implement the provisions of the Concealed Handgun Carry Act. The rules shall include:
C. provision of authority for a private property owner to disallow the carrying of a concealed handgun on the owner's property;
10.8.2.16 TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF LICENSE:
F. Carrying prohibited on private property. In addition to other limitations stated in the act, a licensee may not carry a concealed handgun on or about his person on private property that has signs posted prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons or when verbally told so by a person lawfully in possession of the property.
10.8.2.27 PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED HANDGUNS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY: Pursuant to Subsection C of NMSA 1978 Section 29-19-12, any person lawfully in possession of private property may prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns on such private property by posting notice in accordance with NMSA 1978 Section 30-14-6 or by verbally notifying persons entering upon the property.
30-14-6. No trespassing notice; sign contents; posting; requirement; prescribing a penalty for wrongful posting of public lands.
A. The owner, lessee or person lawfully in possession of real property in New Mexico, except property owned by the state or federal government, desiring to prevent trespass or entry onto the real property shall post notices parallel to and along the exterior boundaries of the property to be posted, at each roadway or other way of access in conspicuous places, and if the property is not fenced, such notices shall be posted every five hundred feet along the exterior boundaries of such land.
B. The notices posted shall prohibit all persons from trespassing or entering upon the property, without permission of the owner, lessee, person in lawful possession or his agent. The notices shall:
(1) be printed legibly in English;
(2) be at least one hundred forty-four square inches in size;
(3) contain the name and address of the person under whose authority the property is posted or the name and address of the person who is authorized to grant permission to enter the property;
(4) be placed at each roadway or apparent way of access onto the property, in addition to the posting of the boundaries; and
(5) where applicable, state any specific prohibition that the posting is directed against, such as "no trespassing," "no hunting," "no fishing," "no digging" or any other specific prohibition.
C. Any person who posts public lands contrary to state or federal law or regualtion [regulation] is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
History: 1953 Comp., § 40A-14-7, enacted by Laws 1969, ch. 195, § 2; 1979, ch. 186, § 3.
30-14-1. Criminal trespass.
A. Criminal trespass consists of knowingly entering or remaining upon posted private property without possessing written permission from the owner or person in control of the land. The provisions of this subsection do not apply if:
(1) the owner or person in control of the land has entered into an agreement with the department of game and fish granting access to the land to the general public for the purpose of taking any game animals, birds or fish by hunting or fishing; or
(2) a person is in possession of a landowner license given to him by the owner or person in control of the land that grants access to that particular private land for the purpose of taking any game animals, birds or fish by hunting or fishing.
B. Criminal trespass also consists of knowingly entering or remaining upon the unposted lands of another knowing that such consent to enter or remain is denied or withdrawn by the owner or occupant thereof. Notice of no consent to enter shall be deemed sufficient notice to the public and evidence to the courts, by the posting of the property at all vehicular access entry ways.
C. Criminal trespass also consists of knowingly entering or remaining upon lands owned, operated or controlled by the state or any of its political subdivisions knowing that consent to enter or remain is denied or withdrawn by the custodian thereof.
D. Any person who enters upon the lands of another without prior permission and injures, damages or destroys any part of the realty or its improvements, including buildings, structures, trees, shrubs or other natural features, is guilty of a misdemeanor, and he shall be liable to the owner, lessee or person in lawful possession for civil damages in an amount equal to double the value of the damage to the property injured or destroyed.
E. Whoever commits criminal trespass is guilty of a misdemeanor. Additionally, any person who violates the provisions of Subsection A, B or C of this section, when in connection with hunting, fishing or trapping activity, shall have his hunting or fishing license revoked by the state game commission for a period of not less than three years, pursuant to the provisions of Section 17-3-34 NMSA 1978.
F. Whoever knowingly removes, tampers with or destroys any "no trespass" sign is guilty of a petty misdemeanor; except when the damage to the sign amounts to more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), he or she is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be subject to imprisonment in the county jail for a definite term less than one year or a fine not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or to both such imprisonment and fine in the discretion of the judge.
G. This section, as amended, shall be published in all issues of "Big Game Hunt Proclamation" as published by the department of game and fish.
History: 1953 Comp., § 40A-14-1, enacted by Laws 1963, ch. 303, § 14-1; 1975, ch. 52, § 1; 1979, ch. 186, § 1; 1981, ch. 34, § 1; 1983, ch. 27, § 2; 1991, ch. 58, § 1; 1995, ch. 164, § 1.
30-14-1.1. Types of trespass; injury to realty; civil damages.
A. Any person who enters and remains on the lands of another after having been requested to leave is guilty of a misdemeanor.
B. Any person who enters upon the lands of another when such lands are posted against trespass at every roadway or apparent way of access is guilty of a misdemeanor.
C. Any person who drives a vehicle upon the lands of another except through a roadway or other apparent way of access, when such lands are fenced in any manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
D. In the event any person enters upon the lands of another without prior permission and injures, damages or destroys any part of the realty or its improvements, including buildings, structures, trees, shrubs or other natural features, he shall be liable to the owner, lessee or person in lawful possession for damages in an amount equal to double the amount of the appraised value of the damage of the property injured or destroyed.
History: Laws 1979, ch. 186, § 2; 1983, ch. 27, § 3.
EDIT: All NMSA laws can be found here
All NMAC (administrative code) can be found here
Last edited by brocktice; October 11th, 2013 at 12:38 PM.
October 11th, 2013 12:25 PM
Strange, that some states still think that because a ticket is paid (at a venue) that the threat is lower, or that that justifies criminalizing upstanding people for daring to realize "pretty bubbles in the air" doesn't equate to a safety plan for a venue. Hopefully citizens in such states will see the light and erase such silly statutory "crimes."
It's worth noting: any link to handgunlaw.us or any other spot other than the state's actual statutes is just a starting point for ending up at the state's listing of statutes. Nobody should ever blindly rely upon someone else's rendition and summary of things.
Originally Posted by jwarrenjr
Last edited by ccw9mm; October 11th, 2013 at 07:41 PM.
Reason: grammar, clarity
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
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