Thoughts on Capacity/Multiple attacker logic

This is a discussion on Thoughts on Capacity/Multiple attacker logic within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Up front, I am asking because I struggle with this daily, not because I feel I am right. Here is my thought on the issue. ...

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Thread: Thoughts on Capacity/Multiple attacker logic

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    Member Array bleys852's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Capacity/Multiple attacker logic

    Up front, I am asking because I struggle with this daily, not because I feel I am right.

    Here is my thought on the issue. First, I carry one extra magazine for my primary weapon if it is a semi auto. This is not because I feel I need a ton of ammo but because the vast majority of semi auto weapon failures can be traced to mag issues. Now, if I am carrying an extra mag I want as high capacity as I can reasonably hide because, if I have to use it, concealment is no longer on my list of challenges.

    Now the multiple attacker issue. I have a buddy that said he wouldn't carry less than a G17/22 with multiple extremely high capacity (30+ round) spares in his bag because he felt that if there were multiple attackers he had "x number of rounds at one per bad guy", he could take on the same amount of bad guys that he had rounds.

    My thoughts are this: Rarely if ever will one handgun round stop a threat immediately. If its worth shooting it once, its worth shooting again. Second if you start picking off BG #1 while there are multiple BG's around one of two things are likely to happen. BG #2 through ~ will either run or advance on you. If they run your done. If they advance, you can't shoot fast enough to get more than one or two of them before they get hands on you. This doesn't even include yet the possibility that the extra BG's are armed. Anyway back to the issue. I feel I can get enough well placed shots to get MAYBE (BIG MAYBE) 2 or 3 attackers if they are motivated to keep attacking before I am overcome in a force on force situation. The amount of rounds I carry is based on my desire to hit my 1 or 2 possible BG's ENOUGH times to stop the threat or God forbid need to provide cover fire while the wife and I move from cover to cover to get our kids out of a bad spot. I know that this last scenario is about as likely to happen as getting attacked by a polar bear and a regular in the same day, but my ability to protect my family at all costs is something that keeps me up at night.

    So anyway, what do you feel is adequate capacity for EDC (not even considering caliber at this point, just how many rounds) and how many direct attackers are you psychologically prepared to face?
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Since I live in nice area an do not go out at night chance of roving gang of attackers is pretty slim. More likely some knucklehead at a gas station or parking lot. I carry a snub an speed strip wife has her 642. If I have to go to Miami to visit sons I take CZ 75 P01 with extra mag wife still has 642.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I think it's all a bunch of horse hockey. I'm comfortable with a 5 shot snubby, switch no reload for my off duty time, and I actually have people who would like to kill me, and threatened the same. And if they try, I'm prepared with whatever I have, which is usually a 7 shot 1911.

    I'll tell you what I think, and it ain't popular.
    I think the vast number of people carrying a CCW for the first time or are new, feel empowered with the gun, then become delusional, as in leaving reality and Mother Earth behind, until they realize they ain't that important of a target, and, they get older and have back trouble from carrying an ammo dump on their side.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Member Array bleys852's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think the vast number of people carrying a CCW for the first time or are new, feel empowered with the gun, then become delusional, as in leaving reality and Mother Earth behind, until they realize they ain't that important of a target, and, they get older and have back trouble from carrying an ammo dump on their side.
    Love this!!
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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    Standing on the shoulders of giants, i.e. I didn't invent this. If you open fire on a mob you shoot one or two the rest will flee and you'll probably have ammo left over. If the mob is determined and they press the attack they will tear you apart and there will still be ammo in the gun when it hit's the ground.

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    Member Array heritage1865's Avatar
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    That's a lot of "what if's".... Bottom line, carry what you're comfortable with and what you can shoot proficiently. Most attacks or confrontations will be "handled" with 1-2 shots.
    Nations crumble from within when the citizenry asks of government those things which it might better provide for itself... Man is not free unless government is limited... As government expands, liberty contracts.
    -Ronald Reagan

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    I think once you take your first step toward carrying a handgun for SD, it is easy to get more and more compulsive, even paranoid, about being prepared for ANY and EVERY threat.

    But the reality is that that is not possible, and certainly not practical. Statistics tell us that most armed confrontations end with fewer than a handful of shots fired. Carry your loaded weapon and a spare mag and call it good. If you need more than that you are probably screwed anyway.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    As John Black leaves Subway after lunch, he makes his way down the lonely, street to his car on this gray, overcast day.

    Suddenly, three men step out from in between parked cars, their faces partially covered, and John's spider senses begin to tingle.

    But thanks to his readings on DC of others exploits with danger, he recognizes this for what it is.
    His Glock 17 with 33 round mag is comforting, however, the spares are causing him considerable pain in the armpit where they are poking.
    A worthy trade off John surmises.

    But John has to wonder, what has caused this attack upon his person? Could it be revenge for taking someone else's parking space last week? Perhaps he didn't tip the waitress enough at Cracker Barrel.
    No, it's got to be because he backed out of the overtime he promised he would work so his coworker could take off.
    Or could it be......

    The attack is on! Quick as lightening the 3 perps attack with guns, knives and other instruments of death.
    But thanks to the hundred thousands of dollars worth of training and equipment, and his education from forums, he is more than ready! He can actually read their minds!
    Quickly the laser finds it's mark. Bam! Bam ! Bam Bam bamBam!!
    The bullets follow the lasers path and the first subject is down.

    Performing a " tacticool " reload, as he does a backflip over a car he will use for cover..........
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Multiple bad guy attacks are not uncommon, but I don't go extreme with it. Though, the possibility of it is just one reason I switched from a 5+1 XDS .45 to a Glock 19. I don't carry a spare mag or anything, but I'm a lot more prepared, IMO, with 15+1 than 5+1. The size was not a problem to switch to with concealing, so there was no practical difference in the way I carry. Just gave myself a few extra rounds as "just in case".

    In a standard BG attack, 15+1 will be more than enough. In case of a multiple person attack (remember the recent thread about the WWII vet attacked by 4 teens? or the mob of 10+ teens that knock out random people for no reason?), 15+1 will serve me well. I don't pretend that I can take down one person with one round, but if there are more than one people ever attacking me, 16 rounds is better than 6.

    And I don't think anyone will try to claim that carrying a Glock 19 with standard magazine capacity is "tacticool" or paranoid. But I believe in considering every possible scenario, and making decisions based off of that. Multiple BG attacks happen. They may not be as common as single BG attacks, but there's nothing wrong with giving yourself a leg up, IMO. I'd prefer having a few round left over after defending myself than having nothing and coming up short.

    There's nothing wrong with carrying even a Glock 17, but the 30rd spare mags are overboard, IMO.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    I learned to shoot with a revolver for LE carry. The mantra was you only have 6 make them count. These days I carry my modded Glock 27 as easy as I did a steel J frame, its just that the Glock holds 14 rounds. I carry one extra mag off duty or 2 on duty, and yes I have one or 2- 22 rounders available at work. When I carry the 1911 I carry 2 reloads. If I was going to carry a revolver it would be a magnum and 2 reloads. Oh and a second gun, you are not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

    Fantasy scenarios aside, if faced with multiple BG's in an up close deadly force encounter you will likely empty whatever handgun you are using in the first few seconds of the fight. It would be awful nice to be able to reload.

    My Glock loaded with 2 mags weighs less than a steel 1911.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    My Glock loaded with 2 mags weighs less than a steel 1911.
    I wanna know how you did that, and if it's possible for me to load my Glock with 2 mags as well.

    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

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    I think we have all watched too many "Die Hard" movies. I am NOT going to involve myself in a running gun battle. I am NOT going to "go after the fella who done me wrong". I am NOT looking to be a "hero" to anyone but my family.

    My personal requirement for a carry gun is the ability to address 2-3 rounds on 2-3 assailants before requiring a reload. That means 6-9 rounds on board as a minimum. Spare magazine(s) are a must though. For a single stack I will usually carry two because two are as easy to carry as one so, why not. For a double stack, I am satisfied with just one spare.

    To answer your question, I stick with 18-30 rounds on me, depending upon my choice of carry gun.
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    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    If I have the opportunity to get off 5 shots in any situation,,,
    I will be extremely fortunate,,, and the closet 5 bg will be
    extremely un-fortunate,,,, I am not as worried about
    capacity as I am placement,,,, call me old school,,,, hey I am.
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  15. #14
    Member Array bleys852's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    As John Black leaves Subway after lunch, he makes his way down the lonely, street to his car on this gray, overcast day.

    Suddenly, three men step out from in between parked cars, their faces partially covered, and John's spider senses begin to tingle.

    But thanks to his readings on DC of others exploits with danger, he recognizes this for what it is.
    His Glock 17 with 33 round mag is comforting, however, the spares are causing him considerable pain in the armpit where they are poking.
    A worthy trade off John surmises.

    But John has to wonder, what has caused this attack upon his person? Could it be revenge for taking someone else's parking space last week? Perhaps he didn't tip the waitress enough at Cracker Barrel.
    No, it's got to be because he backed out of the overtime he promised he would work so his coworker could take off.
    Or could it be......

    The attack is on! Quick as lightening the 3 perps attack with guns, knives and other instruments of death.
    But thanks to the hundred thousands of dollars worth of training and equipment, and his education from forums, he is more than ready! He can actually read their minds!
    Quickly the laser finds it's mark. Bam! Bam ! Bam Bam bamBam!!
    The bullets follow the lasers path and the first subject is down.

    Performing a " tacticool " reload, as he does a backflip over a car he will use for cover..........
    I almost spit coffee on my keyboard. The funny part is, his name actually is Jon and I could see him believing the encounter going as you describe it, backflip and all. You rock.
    gatorbait51 and Aceoky like this.

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    Member Array NightOwl76's Avatar
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    Your odds of ever needing to fire your weapon are small enough as it is. Your odds of running out of ammo and still having attackers coming at you in a gunfight are slim as well. The odds of those two things happening at the same time are...you might have a better chance of Kate Upton knocking on your door for a hot date. So if I was you I'd spend my money on clothes, and my time flossing. Because you never know.

    On a more serious note, carry whatever makes you feel confident in your equipment. As for myself, a single standard capacity reload for my semiauto is enough. And I'm more worried about the first magazine malfunctioning than I am about multiple targets.

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