A Few General Questions

A Few General Questions

This is a discussion on A Few General Questions within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have got a few questions on my mind. Firstly, I rarely use a holster for my CCW. My Makarov can be tucked into my ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Hekkenschutze's Avatar
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    A Few General Questions

    I have got a few questions on my mind.

    Firstly, I rarely use a holster for my CCW. My Makarov can be tucked into my leather jacket's inside pocket and does not create a bulge and tucked in between my waist band and underwear. It fits, perfectly in both places but I don't use a holster.
    Does anyone else here not wear a holster when they carry?
    Does anyone carry extra magazines? If so, how many more?

    Secondly, is someone tasering you in an assault grounds for defensive CCW? I know it is not lethal force BUT it is a weapon used to carry out an assualt and normal hand to hand defensive actions won't stop the tasering? What about if you are being assualted with brassknuckles or nunchunks or something of equal means that is not fully lethal but is more than hand to hand?

    Thirdly, what would you (the reader) do if someone who accidentally found out you were carrying started yelling and shouting about you having a gun? I'm not asking if you'd shoot him or not, I am asking what would you say or do?

    Fourthly, other than Banks, Couthouses and Bars, are there any other places or times where you are not to carry a CCW?


  2. #2
    New Member Array Fireball357's Avatar
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    I personaly wouldn't carry without a holster of some sort or another, mainly for "retention". My primary carry method is the 5.11 holster shirt, which you would think is good retention. Before I added another velcro tab I had, on 2 occasions, my weapon roll out. luckily it was held within my shirt.
    On what to do if someone starts publicy announcing that you have a gun I don't know what I'd do (I wouldn't start shooting).
    A friend of mine had this happen to him when he ran across an old girlfriend at a shopping center and she geve him a hug and jumped back and yelled "Is that a gun". He had his 45 in a SOB holster. He got her calmed down without the cops showing up but I think that was more luck than not.
    Banks and bars are not off limits in all states, but if your going to travel armed you need to know the laws in those states.

  3. #3
    Member Array NUCGUY's Avatar
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    OK one question at a time and we might as well start off at the top. As far as not using a holster I always do and not using one is just asking for problems 99.9% of the time. As far as extra magazines on duty 2 spare on my person and if I am off duty 1 spare.
    A tazer is what is considered to be a less than lethal force option. In the majority circumstances (ie unless it places you in danger of loss of life or limb) lethal force would not be an acceptable measure in the eyes of the law. It's a bit difficult to tell a bullet to come back after the trigger is pulled and if used correctly the damage is not temp. but is perm. Other impact weapons are another story but it would depend on multiple factors such as distance, ability to use, etc. Please remember that lethal force is lethal and you can not say "Oh I am sorry about that.......the hole in your head and the two in your chest will heal up in time".
    The next situtation is one that happens at times to some of us but is not as dramatic as you might think. The best advise I could give is to play down the situtation by walking away from the person, ignoring them (do not do either if the person is a LEO) or act as though you do not know what they are talking about. A large reason that we want to carry concealed and not openly is to prevent unwanted attention while still maintaining the option of lethal force.
    Any business can post their desire to not have anyone other than on duty LEO. This is true in many malls across the US.
    Improvise, Adapt, Modify, and Overcome

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hekkenschutze View Post
    I have got a few questions on my mind.

    Firstly, I rarely use a holster for my CCW. My Makarov can be tucked into my leather jacket's inside pocket and does not create a bulge and tucked in between my waist band and underwear. It fits, perfectly in both places but I don't use a holster.
    Does anyone else here not wear a holster when they carry?
    Does anyone carry extra magazines? If so, how many more?

    Secondly, is someone tasering you in an assault grounds for defensive CCW? I know it is not lethal force BUT it is a weapon used to carry out an assualt and normal hand to hand defensive actions won't stop the tasering? What about if you are being assualted with brassknuckles or nunchunks or something of equal means that is not fully lethal but is more than hand to hand?

    Thirdly, what would you (the reader) do if someone who accidentally found out you were carrying started yelling and shouting about you having a gun? I'm not asking if you'd shoot him or not, I am asking what would you say or do?

    Fourthly, other than Banks, Couthouses and Bars, are there any other places or times where you are not to carry a CCW?

    Answer #1-I always use a holster for reasons of saftey, comfort and security. I also have heard that LEO's look unfavorably on guns carried "Mexican".

    Answer #2- A weapon doesn't need to be lethal for me to defend myself, "serious bodily injury" is also a legitimate concern.

    Answer #3- I'd first attempt to ignore the person, perhaps people would think they meant someone else. If that failed then I'd remain calm and exit the situation as gracefully as I could but make certain my gun was secured so no other hysterical type person could make an attempted grab at it.

    Answer #4- I'm not familiar with your state but do a Google search on handgunlaws. I think the sight is handgunlawsus.com or something similiar.
    PC has become the term for Political Cowardice.

  5. #5
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    I think the sight is handgunlawsus.com or something similiar.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  6. #6
    Member Array Hekkenschutze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireball357 View Post
    I personaly wouldn't carry without a holster of some sort or another, mainly for "retention". My primary carry method is the 5.11 holster shirt, which you would think is good retention. Before I added another velcro tab I had, on 2 occasions, my weapon roll out. luckily it was held within my shirt.

    On what to do if someone starts publicy announcing that you have a gun I don't know what I'd do (I wouldn't start shooting).

    Banks and bars are not off limits in all states, but if your going to travel armed you need to know the laws in those states.
    Well my leather jacket's inside pocket perfectly holsters my Makarov firmly retaining it, it is really nice. I might as well spring for the IWB holster.

    Yeah, I would not start shooting either, which is why i said what i said in the question of "what would you do?" because I thought someone would take it to mean "Would you shoot that person?" lol, no sane person would ever do that.

    I do check state laws before I go into them but I will admit that when I am on a "Journey" I always bring my CCW.

    to 45 ACP: you say "serious bodily injury" is a legitamate concern but would that hold up and justify a shooting?
    I really am curious because if someone attacks you with a tazor, baseball bat, pepperspray or something of that sort is it still not an assault with a weapon? I mean, normally an unarmed person would either have to flee, try to fight on unequal grounds or just get beat up. What I want to know is if I cannot run from it and they have weapons and I feel serious injury or death could result is use of a handgun justified?

    NUCGUY: thanks for your response!! I appreciate it! :)
    But wouldn't an assualt with a Tazor still be considered assault with a weapon? Would assaults with baseball bats, nunchucks, brass knuckles, chains and/or something equally deadly be justification enough if you could not flee or if you thought you were in serious doo doo?

  7. #7
    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    1. Okay, pocket carry with no holster as long as there is nothing else in the pocket is probably fine. Carrying on the waistband with no holster is a very bad idea. Zero weapons retention is the main thing, not to mention nothing would be covering the trigger.

    2. If you fear serious bodily harm or death you can, in most states respond with deadly force. When you are tasered, you lose control of your body basically and who knows what a bad guy would do while your laying on the deck ******* yourself?

    3. You look around and say "gun?!? where?!?!" and walk away. Or "what this bulge? It's a colostomy bag! wanna see?" Do NOT yell anything like "don't worry! I have a license!"

    Also, this is highly unlikely, anybody that scared of a gun would most likely not want to cause a big scene in front of a guy who is armed for fear of being shot by a "psycho with a gun".
    4. Those things vary by state law. For example, in Oregon, we can carry in banks and bars, but not in courthouses. You need to check your own state laws for that.


    Also, an attack with a bat, brass knuckles etc.. is considered deadly force and can be responded to in kind.
    Last edited by Hobbes; December 8th, 2006 at 12:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, the "fleeing" thing depends. Some states have "stand your ground laws" that say you do NOT have a duty to retreat if you are lawfully in a place. Other states require you to retreat if possible when confronted.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hekkenschutze View Post
    I have got a few questions on my mind.

    Firstly, I rarely use a holster for my CCW. My Makarov can be tucked into my leather jacket's inside pocket and does not create a bulge and tucked in between my waist band and underwear. It fits, perfectly in both places but I don't use a holster.
    Does anyone else here not wear a holster when they carry?
    Does anyone carry extra magazines? If so, how many more?
    Yes, I carry using a holster -- even when I carry my gun in a shoulder bag. I don't want it floating free, with the potential that something (an outside pressure, or hand grabbing the bag) could actuate the trigger.

    I carry one extra magazine. The gun is a GLOCK 27, and the mag is from a model 22 -- same caliber, but the spare mag carries more rounds.

    Secondly, is someone tasering you in an assault grounds for defensive CCW? I know it is not lethal force BUT it is a weapon used to carry out an assualt and normal hand to hand defensive actions won't stop the tasering? What about if you are being assualted with brassknuckles or nunchunks or something of equal means that is not fully lethal but is more than hand to hand?
    Brass knuckles or nunchucks are quite certainly to be considered deadly weapons. Nunchucks are nothing more than clubs bound together by a chain or cord! That's not lethal? It hasn't the potential to cause deadly injury?

    Regarding taser attack, I would treat it as a deadly attack justifying deadly force in response, since your attacker could disable your ability to defend yourself (temporary paralysis leaves you helpless) and who knows what he might do to you when you are rendered inert.

    Thirdly, what would you (the reader) do if someone who accidentally found out you were carrying started yelling and shouting about you having a gun? I'm not asking if you'd shoot him or not, I am asking what would you say or do?
    I guess you'd have to calmly explain that you are licensed to carry the firearm, and that you are making no criminal or aggressive acts. It will become clear that you are not a problem, if you keep your cool.

    Fourthly, other than Banks, Couthouses and Bars, are there any other places or times where you are not to carry a CCW?
    Don't assume that these places are automatically a no-go for your concealed handgun. In particular, in Florida you are not prohibited from carrying a gun in a bank. This makes sense, actually; if you can't bring your gun into the bank, how can you use it to defend yourself as you leave the bank if that becomes necessary? Check your local laws.

  10. #10
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    My suggestion would be to take a course or two with a professional trainer. All of your questions would be answered in about the first ten minutes or so.

  11. #11
    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
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    Carrying without a holster is definitely asking for trouble.

    While it can be argued that a Taser is non-lethal, there are documented deaths resulting from its use. And more importantly, how do you know what the perp's intent is once you're down. Interesting topic I'd like to see in the CCW scenario section.

    Mississippi regulation:
    any police, sheriff or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his courtroom; any polling place; any meeting place of the governing body of any governmental entity; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any public park unless for the purpose of participating in any authorized firearms-related activity; any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any portion of an establishment, licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, that is primarily devoted to dispensing alcoholic beverages; any portion of an establishment in which beer or light wine is consumed on the premises, that is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any junior college, community college, college or university facility unless for the purpose of participating in any authorized firearms-related activity; inside the passenger terminal of any airport, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal if the firearm is encased for shipment, for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; any church or other place of worship; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. In addition to the places enumerated in this subsection, the carrying of a concealed pistol or revolver may be disallowed in any place in the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of such place by the placing of a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten (10) feet that the "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited." No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize the participants in a parade or demonstration for which a permit is required to carry a concealed pistol or revolver

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array razorblade's Avatar
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    in regards to holster, I carry my guns mostly in holsters. Only so when I draw them, I can draw them consistantly the same way. Gripping it the same way allows me to get my natural point of aim. The only time when I'm not carrying in a holster, is when I go to the laundry room at 3am to do my laundry (there have been numerious thefts from the laundry machines during the day). I throw my Kel Tec into my sweatpants pocket, grab the hamper and off i go. I carry a spare source of ammo for all of my CCW's (mag or speedloader).
    Hmm the tasering question is pretty interesting. I'm only going on my gut reaction, but if anyone pointed ANYTHING at me, and I knew stuff was about to hit the fan, I'd probably react as if it were a gun. That's just a guess considering all of the conditioning I have been through. However, if I knew it was a taser, decided not to draw and get knocked out, who's to say the bad guy doesn't walk up to my tased body and shoot me with my own gun. That's a pretty good question though. To your third question, if someone saw my CCW and began freaking out? I'd calmly tell them I have a license to carry a handgun (gotta speak their language) and if they decide to call the cops, just wait until the cops arive. Chances are they will feel like complete overreacting idiots once they see the LEO's hand back your permit and tell you to have a nice day.

  13. #13
    Member Array reddevil's Avatar
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    Yes I would say I'd be most scared of getting tasered from the fact that they would get my gun.

  14. #14
    Member Array tj1231's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hekkenschutze View Post
    What I want to know is if I cannot run from it and they have weapons and I feel serious injury or death could result is use of a handgun justified?
    I agree with everyone else so far. This may be just semantics, but "could" is not really justification for a shooting. I think I read something about this in my state laws. Basically what I'm saying is you have to BELIEVE that serious injury or death WILL happen RIGHT NOW.

    Definitely get a holster. "mexican" carry screams criminal to me, so I have to assume it would to the police as well. Spend the big bucks and order a good Milt Sparks or comparable high quality holster first. That way you don't end up with the proverbial drawer full of marginal holsters!

  15. #15
    Member Array Smooth23's Avatar
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    the only one I can answer is the taser question. I'd shoot them without hesitation. Brass knuckles or baseball bat: If they are trying to beat me down at that second I'd shoot em, if they were comming at me I'd get the gun out and try to stop them with the threat of being shot while retreating. If they try to run me down and are faster than me, they are going to be stumbling over and making a puddle.

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