City banning weapons at public events?

City banning weapons at public events?

This is a discussion on City banning weapons at public events? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'd like to keep this thread civil and primarily based on FL law. I understand other states have other laws. Here's the situation: Two "festival" ...

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  1. #1
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    Question City banning weapons at public events?

    I'd like to keep this thread civil and primarily based on FL law. I understand other states have other laws.

    Here's the situation: Two "festival" events are held in West Palm Beach each year--Sunfest & Moonfest, on Clematus Street for those familiar with the area--both admission-for-fee events held on public streets and parks along the waterway. Both events are advertised as "No Weapons Allowed." It's the typical food, drink, entertainment, and any other way to get a buck off you style event.

    To be clear, FL has state gun law preemption, and the list of following places where CC is prohibited is as follows:

    1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
    2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
    3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
    4. Any courthouse;
    5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
    6. Any polling place;
    7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
    8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
    9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
    10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
    11. Any career center;
    12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
    13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
    14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
    15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

    Nowhere in the list is an event held on public streets.

    My question is twofold: 1. Can/Is there any legal basis that the WPBPD can ban legally carried weapons; and 2. If someone with a CWFL ignored the ban and was detected (by whatever means-concealed is concealed is not an answer) Can the police make you leave public property--based on your legal carry only, as in "Leave now or you will be arrested for trespassing"?

    I discussed this with another member and I don't think we settled on a common answer, particularly to part two. For the record, I don't attend either as there's too many people and they charge too much. I would like the opportunity to stop this trend if possible.

    Opinions/views please--
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    Had a similar occurrence up here a few months back. A 4th of July event held on city streets was pre-posted as no weapons permitted. The City claimed that the Event Promoters were essentially leasing the streets of the city for the event which gave them the right to post.

    So with that loophole it would be possible to be arrested for criminal trespass if you were discovered to be carrying and asked to leave and refused.
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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    To be clear, FL has state gun law preemption, and the list of following places where CC is prohibited is as follows:

    1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
    I think you will find the city attorney will be relying on the above as his "out." He will probably rule that the festivals fall under the heading of "an attractive nuisance."

    Just a guess, as we all know, IANAL.
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    Those places are drug/gang related.

    823.05
    Places and groups engaged in criminal gang-related activity declared a nuisance; may be abated and enjoined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    I think you will find the city attorney will be relying on the above as his "out." He will probably rule that the festivals fall under the heading of "an attractive nuisance."

    Just a guess, as we all know, IANAL.
    He may try that but I do not believe he could claim a festival as a nuisance since it does not fit the definition of a nuisance.

    823.01 Nuisances; penalty.—All nuisances that tend to annoy the community, 823.01 injure the health of the citizens in general, or corrupt the public morals are misdemeanors of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.083, except that a violation of s. 823.10 is a felony of the third degree.
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    Distinguished Member Array Wunderneun's Avatar
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    In my unprofessional opinion, no they cannot legally ban firearms. They want to make it all official looking and ominous sounding so you are likely to comply just from the tone of the notice.

    Carry and have fun if you're going.
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    #1 is easy, Since signs do not carry the weight of law in Florida I'd say you are in the clear.
    #2 is pretty straight forward as well. A police offer will not care about the specifics, if he\she wants you to leave for possessing a weapon you're leaving one way or another. I don't think they could charge you with a gun crime, but they'll think of something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatrix View Post
    Had a similar occurrence up here a few months back. A 4th of July event held on city streets was pre-posted as no weapons permitted. The City claimed that the Event Promoters were essentially leasing the streets of the city for the event which gave them the right to post.

    So with that loophole it would be possible to be arrested for criminal trespass if you were discovered to be carrying and asked to leave and refused.
    Make them show the agreement.

    Bet they can't.

    To answer the question, No, they can't tell you to disarm, judging from what you have posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Make them show the agreement.

    Bet they can't.

    To answer the question, No, they can't tell you to disarm, judging from what you have posted.
    It should be becoming clear to most people by now that,,,,,, "THEY" can tell you / make you do whatever they want to or make you pay dearly for defiance of "their authority".

    We are rapidly approaching the point of police state. The "government" no longer works for the people,,,,, the people are only here to fund the "government" (and give them someone to boss around).

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    No expert on FL law. I'm guessing the "typical drinks" will be alcohol and FL appears to prohibit carry in places that serve alcohol for on premise consumption, that may be the fly in the ointment. Especially if the promoter is paying a lease fee to the city.
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    I didn't notice anything in the law that said you are not allowed to carry in a place that has a posted sign that says no firearms allowed. If that is true any posted sign does not carry the weight of the law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugboy View Post
    It should be becoming clear to most people by now that,,,,,, "THEY" can tell you / make you do whatever they want to or make you pay dearly for defiance of "their authority".

    We are rapidly approaching the point of police state. The "government" no longer works for the people,,,,, the people are only here to fund the "government" (and give them someone to boss around).
    All of us whether we are husbands, moms, uncles, students, working, unemployed, Corporals, farmers, retired, Rednecks, straight, gay or somewhere in between, brown, black, white or red all of us have to decide for ourselves as individuals
    where our line in the sand is.

    If one decides he/she can no longer toe the line all the time then to quote from the ELF (Earth Liberation Front) you can choose to be a Monkey Wrencher. Also referred to as monkey wrenching. There is a woman who is a Libertarian author and columnist who I think highly of. Her name is Claire Wolfe. Google her name. One of her best books is 101 things to do before the Revolution. Sometimes she writes for Backwoods Home Magazine. BHM is another great source for the Patriot Movement, 2A, home schooling, alternative everything and humor of the highest caliber.

    That's certainly one way of looking at it. You're correct tho in your statement that *they* meaning any who work in government from the lowly 'dog catcher' to king Obummer think they are our lords and masters and our main purpose is to pay our taxes so as to fund them ie pay their *higher than the private sector* salaries, 11 holidays yearly, personal days, pensions, medical-dental-vision-birth control and vacations.

    Just remember to always fight like an Injun.


    PS 4 OV sorry I went a tad off topic Mister. Someone here says frequently *Always Carry, Never Tell*...Since signage doesn't carry the force of Law in Florida I would choose to not tolerate their *feel good warm and fuzzy doctrine* Take that any way y'all choose but I can't run from trouble. I'm not Chuck Norris so I would be .........
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    In this day & times common sense DOES NOT RULE so unless
    you have the money, time, and desire to FORCE the legal
    ruling JUST STAY AWAY.
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    Based on a very recent ruling by the SA in that area I'd be really carefully about carrying unless/until Florida Carry gets it straightened out.

    State Attorney Tells Law Enforcement to "Stop and Frisk" Florida Gun Owners
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    Senior Member Array sigs's Avatar
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    I am not a lawyer but: Florida also has a preemption law in that cities/counties cannot make or enforce laws which conflict with state law. Isn't that a public street where they merely blocked it off for pedestrian use only for "festivals"? We do the same thing in downtown Sanford, Fl at least once a month. It sounds like WPB is still trying to get around that statute and would be in violation of state law.

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