Employee handbook interpretation

Employee handbook interpretation

This is a discussion on Employee handbook interpretation within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Working for a new company - the employee handbook has one line about firearms under the description of what would constitute workplace violence "Possessing at ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array bgcole's Avatar
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    Employee handbook interpretation

    Working for a new company - the employee handbook has one line about firearms under the description of what would constitute workplace violence

    "Possessing at the workplace any firearm, imitation firearm, or any components which can readily be assembled into a fire arm (unless expressly permitted by law). "

    thoughts?

    My thought is that's a vague way to say if you have a permit, youre in good shape.
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    As a former personnel manager I know how difficult it is to write ANYTHING for employees that will be understood by even half of them. This seems to be more vague than what I used to write LOL (what I used to TRY to write?????)

    Your manual does not say "unless licensed to possess same". The wording "unless expressly permitted by law" seems rather meaningless.

    Suggest you ask for the specific meaning of that sentence...........do not ask if you have a permit and can wear your gun to work, just for the specific meaning of the sentence, particularly the part in parentheses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgcole View Post
    ... My thought is that's a vague way to say if you have a permit, you're in good shape.

    That's how I would read it. However, it's not my butt on the line if you get outed by your employer.

    In all seriousness, most employers don't want the legal liability of encouraging employees to carry. This sounds like a don't ask, don't tell situation.
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    If you ask you are outting yourself.

    I would imagine that they mean that you shouldn't carry, but that is a very vague way to say it.
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    Since it would involve my job and my income,i would find a way to ask someone within the company,not someone from the internet

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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    there are two important words of it all "Expressly Permitted". I do NOT think that means a CCP.

    I think "Expressly" modifies "Permitted". In other words, you are (with a CCP) authorized to carry ...except where you are not.

    The question then becomes has your employer taken the steps necessary to make the work place a "non carry" area? And that I dont know. Its State specific, as to what counts and what doesnt.

    If they have not, however, I DO think, per that badly worded employee handbook, that you would be, by their own policy, GTG. I DONT think that means you would be good with your employer. Just that you complied with that handbook. If they wanted you gone over carrying, youd be gone. Of course then you could perhaps sue, but you know how that goes.

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    Opening your mouth about the wording would not be a wise move. The statement is purposely vague,IMHO.
    "Unless expressly permitted by law" is not vague. Your CCW permit allows you to carry, and this permit is your "expressly permitted by law" license.
    If you were to remain extremely concealed, and told NO ONE, I believe you would be covered. As long as the work site is not one the state recognizes as a "gun safety Zone"...i.e., school, police station, court house, etc.

    Bottom line, if it's a place that's not off limits by state law, I don't see how any place of employment could terminate an employee with that language in the handbook.
    I was the director for personal (Asst. Supt.) for a large school district, and we always had an attorney review our contractual language. This language sounds like it was meant to allow CCW permit holders the right to carry, without sounding like, "Hey everyone, bring your guns to work." OMOYM

    Additionally, I know someone personally, who just went through the writing of a personal manual and wanted advice on how to allow permit holders to carry at work without saying guns were allowed if you had the proper background check and had attained the permit to carry. His wording was similar..."no weapons/firearms unless expressly permitted by law".

    I'd say that you're working in a great place for allowing you the ability to 'quietly' be able to defend yourself.
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    As vague as that is I would carry and if outed simply tell the truth that you are by law allowed to carry a concealed weapon and that is how you understood the handbook.

    At worst I would say if that understanding is wrong they would tell you not to carry anymore
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    Having been a union rep the way I read that is management is saying no firearms. The only exception being if your workplace is in a state that prohibits employers from barring you from having a weapon inside your car on their parking lot.
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    OK SO - a former asst supt. of schools says it means you can carry
    BUT a union rep says it means no firearms.

    That is exactly what I meant in my original post when I talked about notices that will not be understood by even half of the people who read them.

    If it were me I would find one or perhaps 2 other sentences in the manual that "I found a bit confusing" and ask for specific interpretation of all of those items - one of which would of course be the one you specified in the post. That would not be outing yourself. When I do this I always thank the person for explaining and end the discussion there.
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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    I was once told that company handbooks are written at a Fifth Grade Reading level. And that proves that statement !
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    [QUOTE=ShooterGranny;2980384]OK SO - a former asst supt. of schools says it means you can carry
    BUT a union rep says it means no firearms.



    I never did trust anything those union reps said...
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    Sometimes not just company handbooks. Sometime statutes are a bit vague.

    Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:
    1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

    2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

    3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

    So are permit holders allowed to carry there, seeing as every hospital provides some level of mental heath care?
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    Member Array wysh's Avatar
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    I have worked in manufacturing most of my life as supervicing manager, and this you have posted is very familiar to me. This hand books are designed by company lawyer in benefit of companies, this vague statements are vague on purpose. They call them open. If a situation occurs they can go in many ways, exept yours off course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    As vague as that is I would carry and if outed simply tell the truth that you are by law allowed to carry a concealed weapon and that is how you understood the handbook.

    At worst I would say if that understanding is wrong they would tell you not to carry anymore
    ^^^ Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

    If you have a Concealed Handgun Permit (or weapons permit, depending on how it is worded), then you personally are Expressly Permitted to carry said concealed weapon by law. It does not say expressly permitted by the employer. If their intention is you can't unless you have their permission it would say unless expressly permitted by management. The wording leaves you in a very defensible position. If you ask for clarification, you're asking for a specific declination.
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