Armed Robbery: Assume the BG will kill you

This is a discussion on Armed Robbery: Assume the BG will kill you within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Caught the CNN.com report of the convenience store robbery. (I don't know how to forward through the stupid commercial prefix.) Apparently two BGs armed, one ...

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Thread: Armed Robbery: Assume the BG will kill you

  1. #1
    Member Array TattooWings's Avatar
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    Armed Robbery: Assume the BG will kill you

    Caught the CNN.com report of the convenience store robbery.
    (I don't know how to forward through the stupid commercial prefix.)

    Apparently two BGs armed, one with shotgun, the other with handgun, attempt to hold up the cashier. They're too ignorant to know how to pop open the cash register, so they get angry and shoot the two prone store clerks and one customer dead.

    Antis always argue that you'll never have enough time to react, that they'll just take your gun away and use it on you, or that you will simply freeze up at the moment of truth.

    I'd argue that if I'M GOING TO DIE ANYWAY, at least I'll having SOME percentage of a chance to fight FOR MY LIFE rather than being executed for no reason whatsoever.

    Granted; I think that most of us do our best to avoid high crime areas of town, like 24 hr convenience stores with rusting anti-looting bars on the windows. But there are those times when nature calls, or your vehicle needs fuel, and you find yourself in a place at a time where you'd rather not be and simply want to leave as quickly as you can without getting shot in the back over a $200 cash drawer.
    "A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims." - Ayn Rand, The Nature of Government, 1964

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    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    I, too, would rather try to fight back than be slaughtered by some punk over $100.00. My older brother used to be in fast food restaurant management, until he was robbed two different times. One a__hole even went so far as to stick the barrel of a .357 in my brother's mouth and tell him that he was going to blow my brother's head off. My brother has PTSD from those episodes (and no longer works in restaurant management), and I resolved to never go down without a fight...
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    The other issue you have is that the three strikes laws have changed the dynamic some. If they guy is a two time loser already, in many states he is looking at the same sentence to kill you as to get caught doing a robbery with a weapon. So his choice is to leave a living witness who may put him away for life or kill the witness and take his chances on getting caught.

    My LEO friends always said that they would not submit to a robber. It was always going to be a fight to the end. The other thing that they told me as a CCW guy is that should I submit and get searched when the BGs find the gun they will assume I'm a LEO and likely kill me just based on that. Tossing a wallet is one thing, but there is no getting down on the floor, going to a back room etc.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    That's my mode of operation and I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Any armed robbery of any kind, I'm assuming the guy is going to kill me and I'm going to kill him first. I mean, stop the threat.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    I love the arguments of "You'll freeze up" or "They'll just take it away from you" and other endless projectionist bull****. Just because THEY would do this, not me.

    I would be opening fire as soon as they walked towards me or shot someone. Depending on how things were going, I might shoot before then. It depends on the state and whether or not I could remember (or even have time to) my legal rights.
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    This is why I laugh (cynically) when I keep hearing -''do what the nice BG says'' as if that is some guarantee.

    Sorry - if lethal force is present then these days it has to be assumed it WILL be used. Very true re three strike deal - a two strike loser will be going for broke as he has nothing more to lose if convicted.
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    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Who do you trust?

    If you are the victim in an armed robbery, it all comes down to "who do you trust?"

    Are you going to trust some guy who is maybe an ex con and drug addict, who is willing to threaten you with a gun to steal $200? Anybody who tells you to meekly gamble your life on the good will and mercy of the robber is a fool.

    The smart move, in my opinion, is to take the initiative yourself and use every means at your disposal to eliminate the threat to your life. If this means using deception, dirty tricks and shooting him or jumping him when he looks the other way, so be it.

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    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Better to die in a gunfight than be executed.

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    sorry for double post
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    Member Array Leadslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randytulsa2 View Post
    Better to die in a gunfight than be executed.
    I will never let the "kindness" of a criminal determine my destiny.
    If you want it, you better be prepared to take it.


    Better to die on your feet,
    than live on your knees .
    A LTTLE TRAINING IS A DANGEROUS THING ....

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    This reminds me of the recent film "A History of Violence," particularly the scene toward the beginning when "Tom" smashes one of two robbers with a pot of hot coffee! Talk about "dirty tricks" or "every means at your disposal."

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    I always assume that anyone who poses a violent threat to me or those around me is willing to kill. So I am willing to resist up to and including death.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Post 3 Suspects Arrested In Fatal Store Shootings

    As reported today by WSMV TV:

    3 Suspects Arrested In Fatal Store Shootings

    POSTED: 7:30 pm CST December 13, 2006
    UPDATED: 12:39 pm CST December 14, 2006



    NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Police said Wednesday night they have arrested all three suspects in the attempted robbery of a convenience store that left two employees dead and critically injured a customer Tuesday night.




    The flash is the fire from the barrel of the gun in the top right of the image.

    Joshua Lee Brown, 20, and Rokisha Alderson, 16, were arrested in a neighborhood near the store Wednesday evening.

    Police said the pair were the two robbers who walked into the AMPM Discount Tobacco north of downtown Nashville wearing ski masks and armed -- Alderson with a pistol and Brown with a shotgun -- demanding money from the clerks.

    Robin L. Betts II, 18, was also arrested and accused of being the getaway driver of the sport utility vehicle in which they fled.

    Brown was identified first by investigators through fingerprint analysis and other evidence found at the crime scene, police said, and tracked to the neighborhood where all three suspects were caught.

    Brown and Betts were expected to be charged with criminal homicide late Wednesday night. Alderson was scheduled to be charged in Juvenile Court.

    Brown was spotted in a neighborhood yard Wednesday evening and attempted to run before being captured by SWAT officers.

    It was not immediately known if Betts and Alderson had previous criminal records.

    Aaron said the two would-be robbers demanded money, but became frustrated when the clerks began speaking in Arabic and opened fire.

    They shot and killed Salama Estfanous, 23, and Bishouy Hanna, 24, both of Egypt.



    Customer James Rayburn, 55, of La Vergne was also shot and listed in critical condition at the Vanderbilt University Medical Center on Wednesday.

    A second customer, Dale Smith, was unharmed.

    Hanna and Estfanous were not related but came to America together after winning a lottery for visas to travel to the U.S.

    Several regular customers from the surrounding neighborhood went to the store Wednesday to light candles, place flowers and share their sympathies for the two men.

    Medhad Meximous, who said he was Estfanous' cousin, said the shootings accomplished nothing.

    "If he had told him 'Give me the money' ... he would give it to him," Meximous told WSMV-TV. "I lose my life here -- both my best friend Bishouy and Sam (Salama)."

    Kevin Baker said he was a friend of the two victims and is also head of the neighborhood crime-watch program. He said the commercial street needs more protection against crime.

    "We've even gone so far as talking about having cameras put up and down Gallatin Road just for the simple fact of something like this; it has to be stopped," Baker said.

    Police said Brown had a criminal arrest record in Nashville dating back to the age of 13, including charges of drug possession, reckless driving, felony theft, criminal impersonation and probation violation. The disposition of all those charges was not immediately available.

    A candlelight vigil will be held outside the store in the clerks’ honor at 6:30 p.m. Thursday.

    The story can be found at; http://www.wsmv.com/news/10529350/detail.html

    Video of the community as it mourns the loss of the slain market employees: http://www.wsmv.com/video/10529138/index.html

    - Janq
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  15. #14
    smo
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    Glad they caught 'em. Too bad they did what they did. Good reminder to not trust a BG, as if we really needed that reminder.

  16. #15
    Member Array Smooth23's Avatar
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    Little over a year ago there was a girl stabbed to death in Walgreen's not far from me. It was an armed robbery, but after the guy stabbed the clerk he forgot all about the money. Then there was the guy coming out of a quickie mart that got shot in brood daylight. Both apparent armed robberies. If the Walgreen's clerk had a gun I know she'd still be alive. The other guy would have had a better chance if he wasn't a sheep, thats for sure.

    And my family doesn't know why I want to carry a gun.

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