Military Bases Spinoff

This is a discussion on Military Bases Spinoff within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not trying to hijack a thread so here's a new one. I currently work at a military installation (as a civilian) and have always found ...

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Thread: Military Bases Spinoff

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    Member Array 500Mag's Avatar
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    Military Bases Spinoff

    Not trying to hijack a thread so here's a new one.

    I currently work at a military installation (as a civilian) and have always found it painfully ironic that the government doesn't have to follow its own Constitution. Personal weapons are a no go unless you are there for hunting and even then its highly regulated. It goes without saying that concealed carry is prohibited.

    Does anyone know the history or rationale behind this standard?
    Last edited by 500Mag; December 20th, 2006 at 09:37 PM.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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    Member Array xsquidgator's Avatar
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    I'll take "military beauracratic stupidity" for $500, Alex.

    Big organizations get so big that the people making the rules lose sight of the picture on the ground, kind of how a fat man might get so big he eventually loses sight of his shoes and forgets to verify that his shoes still match his belt color. Soon he's dressing according to what he thinks things are like rather than what they actually are, and then someone off to the side starts asking awkward questions...

    The military is a collection of Very Large organizations. My experience is kind of dated now (1987-1995) but particularly when it came to security things (imo) could get very wierd when nothing bad had happened for many years. I'm sure the root of your current issue with not being allowed to carry on base has something to do with somehow keeping armed terrorists off of bases (that makes sense to gun control people but not to me) and maybe also with too many people having seen the recruit shoot his DI in Full Metal Jacket. Ergo, no private guns means problem solved.

    Of course that isn't the way it works. I remember years ago seeing camera footage from Ft Bragg 5 or 10 years ago I think it was where an airborne trooper went around the bend, and shot up morning PT formation with a rifle before killing himself. What I saw on the camera were dozens or hundreds of soldiers kept helpless and unarmed, running for their lives in all directions, while would-be-sniper-guy picks off a number of them. Bases are still like that, aren't they? They were when I was in the service. Better go hide in a closet and wait for the reaction force to come get you. I think it would be a better idea, especially given current events and considering that nowhere on any base is really safe from an attack, to train and arm everyone. The USN used to be really bad about this, I hope they've improved this. Most sailors 15 years ago were helpless if handed a 1911 pistol, an empty magazine, and 8 rounds of 45acp, no clue as to what to do. And, I do remember a funny (now) accidental discharge at a shore facility once when the Dept of Energy security force (ex-SF tough guys) were replaced with some cammo-wearing sailors from the fleet (who were generally Barney Fife types). I guess SomeOne thought it'd be better to guard certain USN facilities with USN personnel rather than government contractors, but from what I saw, the government contractors (who seemed to be all ex-special forces of different types) had things MUCH more on the ball than did the sailors who came in there. The sailors had a good time, wearing camo, carrying guns, looking mean, but I don't remember the government contractors accidentally shooting holes in the walls at 5am.

    Well, sorry, I guess that didn't help too much with your question, but I have to think the answer to your question lies somewhere along the direction of this rant. The base commanders and REMFs still care more about preventing accidental discharge accidents than being ready to repel boarders, as we used to say in the Navy. I'm willing to concede that statistically speaking a good argument might be made there, but this wussy attitude towards allowing lawful concealed carry or about arming military members inport or on base still sticks in my craw.
    Last edited by xsquidgator; December 20th, 2006 at 09:32 PM.

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    Guns registered at pass and Id are allowed on USMC&Navy Bases, probably the other services as well. Short term in vehicles, kept in base quarters, and armory for barracks residents. No concealed weapons.

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    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    Guns registered at pass and Id are allowed on USMC&Navy Bases, probably the other services as well. Short term in vehicles, kept in base quarters, and armory for barracks residents. No concealed weapons.
    So if I'm carrying out in town, and I go on base I'm okay if I unload it and put in a case or something before going through the gate? (assuming the pistol is registered on base?)

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    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    Perhaps the same reason certain members of the government want to keep everyone from having guns? If they're unarmed, they can't rebel.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

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    How True...

    Quote Originally Posted by xsquidgator View Post
    I'll take "military beauracratic stupidity" for $500, Alex.


    ...Actually, work the same with most BIG organizations...

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    Member Array devilmutt's Avatar
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    When I was stationed at MCAS Yuma we could not keep any firearms in the barracks. If you owned a firearm you did not want to keep it in the armory, they became a toy for the Marines in the armory. We always kept them in the trunk of our cars or at the home of a Marine who did not live in the barracks.

    One night when I got off work and was walking down the hall to my barracks room I looked into a open room and saw a Lcpl pointing a handgun at me. I asked him if it was loaded, when he said no I took it from him and turned it into the desk Sgt. I think this is one of the reasons they are not allowed. The Military is full of people who have no business touching a firearm. It's sad but true.

    I also think a lot of people with permits should not have firearms. They do not take the time to learn how to use them and they do not know the laws that go along with them.

    I don't know if this answers the original question or not, it's just my opinion.
    "The Army and the Navy are run like traditional military services. The Air Force is run like a corporation. But the Marine Corps is a religion." Navy Admiral

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    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    How wold you weed out the people with no business owning a hand gun?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    So if I'm carrying out in town, and I go on base I'm okay if I unload it and put in a case or something before going through the gate? (assuming the pistol is registered on base?)
    Depends on base regs, might have to put it in the trunk if in a car.

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    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilmutt View Post
    I also think a lot of people with permits should not have firearms. They do not take the time to learn how to use them and they do not know the laws that go along with them.
    I agree that if you have a permit to carry, you should be proficient in both the use of your firearm as well as the safety and legal aspects of same. However I don't think that ANYONE should be kept from excercising a GOD given, Constitutionally GUARENTEED right to protect themselves. Unless proven by a court of law that they are individually found forfit of that right due to there propencity to do harm rather than good.

    Thanks
    MikeV

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    Senior Member Array Steve48's Avatar
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    The Military has always been the most restrictive on firearms even when I was in the military in 1969. Steve48

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    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    However I don't think that ANYONE should be kept from excercising a GOD given, Constitutionally GUARENTEED right to protect themselves.
    I agree 100% with the "Constitutional" right. As for the "God given" part, do you mind pointing that passage in the Bible (or Koran or Book of Morman or any other widely utilizied book of scriptures) that mentions firearms and the right to own and carry them? I don't mean to be a smartaleck, but as an admitted Christian, I 'm always a little peeved when I see this. As I understand God (and I certainly don't claim to be an expert or a theologian), He guarantees me grace, forgiveness, and eternal life. He never said anything about the right to own firearms. I always hate seeing His name dragged into the issue.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    I agree 100% with the "Constitutional" right. As for the "God given" part, do you mind pointing that passage in the Bible (or Koran or Book of Morman or any other widely utilizied book of scriptures) that mentions firearms and the right to own and carry them?
    Uh, reality need not be "written" to be true.

    Only a tithe of the operation of mankind's world exists in such writings, and it can hardly be expected that humans have the full understanding of such intentions. That it ain't written down doesn't mean it ain't real.

    Self defense is in the natural order of things. It's how life preserves itself. All living things engage in this. Mankind may well choose to exempt itself from common sense, but mankind is not exempt from reality.
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    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    ccw9mm, Thank you.

    MikeV

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    If you have ever been in the military you learn real fast that you are no longer a part of a democracy. It is a dictatorship. The person with the highest rank makes the rules.
    I had to get out of the military to actually get to use the democracy I was fighting for.
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