CANADA: Van Sun article,and editorial Dec 20

CANADA: Van Sun article,and editorial Dec 20

This is a discussion on CANADA: Van Sun article,and editorial Dec 20 within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The Province Published: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 You have to hand it to straight-shooting Vancouver school trustee Sharon Gregson. She sure has stirred up a ...

Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: CANADA: Van Sun article,and editorial Dec 20

  1. #1
    Member Array Pyro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    CANADA: Van Province ed. Dec. 20

    The Province
    Published: Wednesday, December 20, 2006

    You have to hand it to straight-shooting Vancouver school trustee Sharon Gregson. She sure has stirred up a hornet's nest with her forthright views on gun ownership.

    The COPE trustee's critics, like school board chairman Ken Denike, have been quick to blast her for using her position to promote that of the North American gun lobby.

    But this is a democracy. And Gregson is entitled to her opinion, stated clearly in the Canadian Firearms Journal, that women should have the right to carry concealed weapons for their protection.

    Certainly, we don't want our public officials falling timidly in line with a single, politically-correct view of the world.

    Besides, the heavily-tattooed Gregson makes at least a couple of good points. Canada's national gun registry has been a colossal waste of money. And there may be times when a woman is safer being armed than relying on the police for protection.

    Nevertheless, we should take the overall views of this zealous gun champion with a healthy pinch of salt. Carrying a handgun is a two-edged sword. And there's invariably a big risk that those who do so will find themselves at the receiving end.

    When it comes to stirring up debate on a key public issue, however, all power to Gregson.

    Politics in this country needs colourful people with bold opinions. So does our school system.

    Ratepayers who don't like Gregson can always fire her -- at the next civic election

    Quite a positive editorial, from the usually left wing Province!

  2. #2
    Member Array Pyro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    CANADA: Van Sun article,and editorial Dec 20

    PUBLICATION: Vancouver Sun
    DATE: 2006.12.20
    EDITION: Final
    SECTION: WestCoast News
    PAGE: B1 / Front
    BYLINE: Janet Steffenhagen
    SOURCE: Vancouver Sun
    ILLUSTRATION: Colour Photo: (John Les); Colour Photo: (Sharon Gregson)
    NOTE: Ran with fact box "The Players", which has been appended to the
    end of the story.
    WORD COUNT: 580


    Solicitor-general criticizes school trustee: Sharon Gregson's comments
    called 'outrageous'


    VANCOUVER - Provincial Solicitor-General John Les blasted Vancouver
    school trustee Sharon Gregson Tuesday, saying comments she made about
    firearms are "outrageous", and describing her as a "rogue" trustee.

    "I'm not anti-gun-ownership or anything like that," Les said in an
    interview. "But she's gone a big step further in saying that people
    ought to be able to conceal them on their person."

    "I can't imagine what makes her advocate for that kind of thing. You
    know, responsible gun owners -- I've never run across one who would
    advocate that kind of thing."

    Les contacted The Vancouver Sun after Gregson was quoted in the media
    this week about her new-found love of target shooting and her
    application in the U.S. for a permit to carry a concealed weapon in that
    country. She said there were times she would have felt safer in Canada
    if she had been carrying a concealed weapon.

    A picture of her holding a Colt .45 handgun is on the front of the
    latest edition of the Canadian Firearms Journal.

    Les, the Liberal solicitor-general, said it was outrageous for Gregson,
    a former president of the Vancouver-Hastings NDP riding association, to
    suggest people should have the right to carry a concealed weapon in
    Canada and, as a school trustee, she shouldn't be spouting such views.

    "She's advocating the kind of behaviour that I don't think we're
    interested in in our society," Les said, noting most gun violence on
    Lower Mainland streets involves handguns that are often concealed.

    Gregson has offered her support to a National Firearms Association
    campaign promoting the right of women to carry concealed firearms for

    Les said he was disappointed NDP Leader Carole James did not pull
    Gregson, a long-time New Democrat, into line first thing Tuesday.
    Gregson was elected to the school board last year as a member of the
    Coalition of Progressive Electors.

    "There are lots of good people out there working hard every day to keep
    our community safe. When we've got a rogue school trustee with views
    that are way out of whack I think we should all be saying and suggesting
    in the strongest possible terms that her views are irresponsible."

    Mike Farnworth, the NDP critic for the Solicitor-General's Ministry,
    said he doesn't support Gregson's views on concealed weapons and doesn't
    think a majority of British Columbians do either. She should address
    concerns about the flow of illegal weapons from the U.S., he added.

    Still, he said, she shouldn't be censured. "She is entitled to her view
    and she will be judged on those views" during the next election in 2008.

    Les said he hopes the reaction to her comments will convince Gregson to
    re-think her "bizarre" position.

    Contacted Tuesday, Gregson, a long-time day-care advocate, said she was
    shocked by the reaction but couldn't speak further because she was busy.
    She did not return The Sun's calls before deadline. On Monday, she said
    she hoped to encourage a debate about guns that was based on facts and
    not emotion.

    "By speaking out as a legal gun owner who is concerned all the time
    about safe storage, safe transport and safe handling of firearms, and
    who enjoys firearms as a sport and as a collector, I think I'm putting
    forward another part of the discussion and another perspective," Gregson

    In the magazine article, she was quoted as saying she would continue to
    speak "as a respected educator, about firearms being a healthy part of
    society and not the scary, illegal, murderous weapons the media and
    politicians would often have us believe."

    I don't know what the US equivalent of a Solicitor General is. A province is like a state, and a SG is the top lawmaker of each province.
    The odd thing is, is that he is from relatively right-wing party, and Sharon is a member of the NDP, a left wing party, that is generally against gun ownership. Very strange.

    I pulled this from CGN.
    Big long thread here:
    Last edited by Pyro; December 21st, 2006 at 05:11 AM. Reason: changed title to include "and Editorial"

  3. #3
    Member Array Pyro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    And from the same paper, (Vancouver Sun) the daily editorial:


    Vancouver Sun
    Published: Wednesday, December 20, 2006

    Until this week, Sharon Gregson was known as a Vancouver school trustee, a passionate New Democrat and an advocate for publicly funded daycare.

    All of that changed when she appeared on the cover of the Canadian Firearms Journal, a publication of the National Firearms Association, with a .45-calibre Colt pistol in one hand.

    Gregson notes that she's been involved with recreational shooting for several years and has competed in the International Practical Shooting Confederation. But her cover girl turn took many people by surprise and a few by shock. Some of Gregson's fellow trustees worried that the picture might convey the message that carrying a weapon is a good way to protect yourself, which is the last thing they want to promote given concerns about violence in schools.

    Gregson has stated unequivocally that she doesn't advocate children carrying weapons as a means of protection, but it's clear her appearance on the journal's cover was about more than promoting her hobby. The NFA has, after all, launched a campaign to lobby for permits to carry concealed weapons in Canada, and has placed special emphasis on how such permits could help women to protect themselves.

    And Gregson has noted that she has applied for a permit in Utah and has written to Prime Minister Stephen Harper asking him to look at this issue. She has also suggested that were such permits available, the Montreal massacre, in which 14 women were shot to death at the Ecole Polytechnique, might have been a very different story.

    The real issue then -- aside from the propriety of a school trustee posing on the cover of a magazine brandishing a pistol -- is whether concealed weapon permits do lead to a reduction in violent crime.

    The evidence from the United States on this matter is inconclusive. John Lott, visiting professor at State University of New York (Binghamton), is probably the most well known, and controversial, proponent of concealed weapons permits, and he has produced volumes of research suggesting that such permits lead to a decrease in violent crime.

    However, many other researchers have taken issue with Lott's methods and conclusions, noting, among other things, that many factors could account for the decrease in violent crime Lott discovered.

    Still other researchers have obtained results similar to Lott's, and this conflict led the U.S. National Academy of Sciences to conduct a thorough review of the research in 2004. The academy concluded that "there is no credible evidence that 'right to carry' laws, which allow qualified adults to carry concealed handguns, either decrease or increase violent crime."

    According to the academy, one of the main reasons for this lack of evidence is that the current data is insufficient to draw such conclusions, and the academy therefore advocates the development of a National Violent Death Reporting System and a National Incident-based Reporting System. But until such systems are in place and we have adequate data, we can't conclude that concealed weapon permits lead to a reduction in violent crime.

    There is even less reason to assume that carrying concealed weapons will help women to protect themselves, since most women who are assaulted or raped are attacked by their intimate partners or other people who know them. Such assailants would likely know if the woman is armed.

    Sharon Gregson said she was hoping to promote discussion of gun laws, and in that she has certainly succeeded. But it will be a lot more difficult task to establish that concealed weapon permits offer women the protection they need.

    © The Vancouver Sun 2006
    Last edited by Pyro; December 21st, 2006 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Two posts have been combined into one, I am clarifying what referers to what.

  4. Remove Advertisements

  5. #4
    Member Array Pyro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    I just sent a letter to Ed, about the above editorial. (Vancouver Sun)

    Dear Editor

    Your editorial of Dec 20 says that the US experience with concealed carry is inconclusive.
    What is not in debate is that after Florida introduced a concealed carry law, they did not have a “wild west” mentality, as some naysayers had predicted.
    In fact, as the incidence of rape dropped dramatically, as women began arming themselves, other states began to look towards Florida’s system. Now, 48 states have some form of concealed carry, and over 40 are on a “shall issue” basis, meaning that if there is no valid reason to deny an applicant, it must be allowed.
    Many of those states have reciprocity agreements with other states. In fact, the Utah permit that Ms. Gregson holds is good in 31 states. Ironically, she is deemed trustworthy by a foreign country, but not trusted by her own government.
    It is also worth noting that she is applying for something that already exists, in theory. The type 3 ATC (Authorization To Carry) is in place, but if you are not a politician, judge, or in one case, a bike gang hitman turned witness, you will be turned down.
    I wish her well, and thank her for her courage in pursuing this.

    BTW, I previously held a Washington state concealed pistol permit, and considered it a point of pride that I was trustworthy enough to get it.
    Last edited by Pyro; December 21st, 2006 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Two posts have been combined into one, I am clarifying what referers to what.

  6. #5
    Member Array Pyro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Letter to Ed (The Province)

    Dear Editor

    Thank you for the thoughtful and even handed editorial regarding Ms. Sharon Gregson’s bid to obtain a concealed carry permit. One minor issue is the often repeated statement that a gun may be taken away from the victim and used against her. Why does no one suggest disarming police and soldiers, in order to protect them from such danger?
    And shouldn’t it be her choice to make, as to which is the bigger threat?

    You also ran a news article on Ms. Gregson, in which Solicitor General John Les, and NDP critic Mike Farnsworth both criticized Ms. Gregson.
    As she is an NPD member herself, I can understand why Les tries to score cheap political points, but I find it bizarre that Farnsworth sides with the Liberal government on this. He should be supporting a woman’s right to defend herself from grave danger. Does he not care about her wellbeing?
    He says that Gregson is out of step with BC values. Perhaps it is Mr. Farnsworth that is out of step.
    If the people lead, the leaders will follow.
    Thank you, Sharon, for taking the lead in this debate.
    Last edited by Pyro; December 21st, 2006 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Two posts have been combined into one, I am clarifying what referers to what.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006

    Group safety vs. individual safety

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    The real issue then is whether concealed weapon permits do lead to a reduction in violent crime.
    This statement in the article summarizes the anti gunner point of view - that individual ownership of a gun must be justified by the effect on overall crime rates in the society. Of course, such a connection between gun ownership and crime rates can never be clearly proved, because so many different factors influence crime rates that one possible factor cannot be isolated with certainty. Those who put forward this "test" are setting up a false standard and confusing the issue.

    The compelling argument for individual gun ownership is that it makes the individual safer, by giving him a means of defense against criminal attack. As an individual, I don't care about the overall effect on society - I just want to protect myself from injury or death at the hands of a criminal. And that reason is quite sufficient for me.

    Fortunately in the US we have the Second Amendment, which states that the individual has the legal right to have a gun for his own defense or whatever legitimate use he wishes. The Canadians evidently lack this Constitutional guarantee, to their misfortune. So they argue about whether it will help the flock, rather than the individual sheep. This is typical of a liberal point of view, where the group is everything and the individual is expendable.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Just look at my sig line.

    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking! I her for not think like everyone else!

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Vancouver, Canada
    For our US readers. This lady also belong to the most left wing party in Canada. Plus she has had some decent interviews from Media that is normally very anti-gun. Having her bring up CCW for Canadians is pure gold, it won’t likely make any noticeably change, but she has broken the taboo about speaking of wanting this right. It’s the first step in a long hard road to win back our rights. Already the anti’s are trying to get her fired from her job, many firearm owners who frequent Canadiangunnutz website have set up a letter writing campaign to help protect her from being unfairly treated.

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Similar Threads

  1. Knuckleheaded Editorial from NY
    By randytulsa2 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 11th, 2010, 07:09 PM
  2. Pro-CCW Editorial
    By Desk Jockey in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: December 10th, 2008, 06:56 AM
  3. CANADA: NFA article on ATC
    By Pyro in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: December 17th, 2006, 10:05 AM
  4. local editorial.
    By Bryan in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 30th, 2006, 01:46 PM
  5. Interesting editorial
    By P95Carry in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: October 27th, 2005, 04:48 PM