John Farnam Quip

This is a discussion on John Farnam Quip within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was fooling around on John Farnam's sight and found this quip that might be interesting to some here. QUIPS | Defense Training International What ...

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    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    John Farnam Quip

    I was fooling around on John Farnam's sight and found this quip that might be interesting to some here.

    QUIPS | Defense Training International

    What little we know about using a gun in self-defense, during a personal attack

    Posted by John S. Farnam on 3:07 AM in 2013, Gunshot Wounds, Tactics | 0 comments

    1 Dec 13

    What little we know about using a gun in self-defense, during a personal
    attack:

    Many shooting statistics, commonly bandied-about, are dubious and
    agenda-driven. We need to view them all with a jaundiced eye. One example,
    routinely used by blindly-devoted gun-phobes, is that you’re more likely to be
    shot by a family member than by a violent criminal.

    When you really think a member of your family, with whom you live, is going
    to shoot you, you probably need to immediately move out of that household!
    And, if you seriously believe you’re going to shoot yourself,
    intentionally or unintentionally, you probably shouldn’t have any kind of gun!

    When you fall into either of those categories, you need to pass on
    gun-ownership. In fact, you can stop reading now, as you’ll likely find what
    follows boring and incomprehensible!

    There are many other examples, but here are a few statistics my experience
    indicates we can take with more than a grain of salt:

    1) The majority of GSWs arriving in hospital emergency rooms involve limbs,
    and are accidental and self-inflicted!

    Like chainsaws and lawn-mowers, guns are dangerous! As with any item of
    dangerous equipment, you need to thoroughly learn how to handle, operate,
    keep, and carry guns correctly. However, unlike chainsaws and lawn-mowers,
    serious guns represent a piece of emergency/safety equipment, like
    fire-extinguishers, so they often must be kept continuously in a high state of
    readiness in order to be truly useful. You need to know and understand how to
    do that properly.

    When you’re able to operate an automobile, you can surly be trained to
    operate any modern pistol I know of. But, as with automobiles, you need to
    take it upon yourself to expose yourself to competent training. If not, don’
    t even start, because you will likely join the statistics mentioned above!

    2) Upwards of 90% of domestic gunfights occur at a range of seven meters or
    less. Half occur within three meters! Many of those occur at contact
    range! Long-range shots are still an integral part of competent training,
    but most training needs to take place at most likely engagement ranges.

    On the other side of the coin, reliable statistics indicate that shots
    launched by violent felons at you will be effective less than 7% of the time,
    when engagement range is in excess of ten meters. Accordingly, part of
    your training needs to involve aggressive disengagement and retreat from
    threat(s) to past ten meters in range (in addition to effectively using
    available cover) in order to enhance your advantage.

    3) The longer this gunfight goes on, the more shot you’re going to get!
    The vast majority of the time, the one who scores the first fatal hit
    (body-midline, naval to neck) will ultimately prevail. Personal control and
    precision are the keys. When you panic and forget what you’re doing, you’re
    going to lose. A pointless fusillade of unaimed bullets, launched in the ”
    general direction” of the threat, will probably not be effective, but will
    endanger innocent bystanders. When your bullet(s) don’t hit what you wanted
    them to hit, then, by definition, they will hit something you didn’t want
    hit. No one cares how fast you can miss!

    Stay in control. Use your sights. Get your hits. End the fight quickly!

    4) Moving laterally during your draw will decrease the likelihood of your
    being hit by upwards of 70%. Lateral movement is thus an integral part of
    your presentation routine!

    5) You will be facing more than one armed attacker in excess of 50% of the
    time. This suggests the advantage of routinely carrying a high-capacity
    auto-pistol, in a serious caliber, routinely carrying high-performance,
    tactical ammunition, and practicing the swift and effective dispatching of
    multiple threats. This statistic also recommends habitually carrying a back-up
    pistol!

    6) Hit-percentages achieved by working patrol officers in actual gunfights
    is sometimes as poor as 12%. However, among well-trained and practiced
    SWAT officers, it often exceeds 95%! Obviously, you must train to be
    proficient. Don’t wait around for someone to “provide” you with training. Go
    out on your own, and get the competent training you need from accomplished
    private-sector trainers.

    7) Your next gunfight will occur in low light upwards of 80% of the time.
    No training regimen is thus complete, without practice in low-light
    shooting!

    8) During your next gunfight, it is likely you’ll be shooting your pistol
    one-handed, not by preference, but due to necessity. Your “other” hand may
    be occupied with sweeping family-members out of the way, or it may be
    already injured. To be fully prepared, you must dedicate some practice to
    effectively shooting your pistol one-handed, with both strong-side and
    support-side hands!

    9) We dare not forget what is sometimes called:

    “The dead man’s five seconds!”

    Violent felons who have been fatally hit, and are in the process of dying,
    who will be found by responding police a short time later, dead at the
    scene (DRT), whose ventricles have been shredded by your bullets, whose
    blood-pressure is thus rapidly dropping to zero- can still, and likely will,
    continue to represent a lethal threat to you for at least five seconds, maybe at
    long as fifteen seconds! “Instant” de-animation is unlikely with any
    pistol ammunition made, short of a difficult “brain-stem shot.”

    So, don’t relax too soon! Give your bullets time to complete their deadly
    work, lest you be killed by a “dead man!” Don’t approach wounded
    suspects! Stay at distance, behind cover, prepared to continue shooting when
    necessary.

    10) It works both ways! The “fatality percentage” of domestic GSWs (all
    gun types) is only 3%. 97% of GSWs are not ultimately fatal! Accordingly,
    even when hit, you have to continue to fight effectively. When hit, your
    best immediate strategy is to get fatal hits on your attacker as quickly as
    possible, so he can’t hit you again!

    When you are conscious enough to realize you’ve been hit, you’re conscious
    enough to finish the fight. Don’t delay an instant!

    To summarize:

    “You’re either in the Navy, or you’re not!” “Dabblers” in our Art are
    kidding themselves! Non-serious “recreational” and “competition”
    shooters, who vainly imagine themselves as gun-fighters, are also kidding
    themselves.

    Your life is in your hands. Get a good grip on it!

    “Lambs lie down only with well-fed lions, and plowshares, formed from the
    beaten swords of warriors, are wielded only by slaves.”

    Wiggington

    /John
    Stay in control. Use your sights. Get your hits. End the fight quickly!
    A retired LEO acquaintance of mine was involved in two shootings and told me that both times he was working so hard to acquire his front sight that he remembered a piece of lint on the sight in one instance and being able to count the grooves in the front sight in the other.
    molleur, sdprof, JDE101 and 5 others like this.

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    Member Array Grantspastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanJim View Post
    I was fooling around on John Farnam's sight and found this quip that might be interesting to some here.

    QUIPS | Defense Training International





    A retired LEO acquaintance of mine was involved in two shootings and told me that both times he was working so hard to acquire his front sight that he remembered a piece of lint on the sight in one instance and being able to count the grooves in the front sight in the other.
    That is very interesting. It gives a perspective I wouldn't have thought about

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    I would disagree with him on his opinion of shootings by family members as it is a regular occurrence around here. The evening news routinely reports on murder suicides (sometimes multiple murders) by family or supposed "loved ones." In fact, if one would run a report on S. FL murders, I'd say the majority of killings are gang-related or family/loved one related, and those would be almost split 50/50.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I would disagree with him on his opinion of shootings by family members as it is a regular occurrence around here. The evening news routinely reports on murder suicides (sometimes multiple murders) by family or supposed "loved ones." In fact, if one would run a report on S. FL murders, I'd say the majority of killings are gang-related or family/loved one related, and those would be almost split 50/50.
    I don't think he's saying it doesn't happen. I think he's saying you know when you are in a bad situation and it is your responsibility to remove yourself from it. Denial gets the best of a lot of people.
    atctimmy likes this.

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    That was an interesting read for sure...Thanks for posting.
    US ARMY Veteran 1965-1967 Vietnam 1966-1967
    WELCOME HOME TO ALL WHO SERVED, AND FOR THOSE STILL SERVING,
    A BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. FOR THOSE OF YOU DOWN RANGE
    WATCH YOUR 6, AND KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN.
    A PATRIOT BELIEVES IN IT....A VETERAN LIVED IT

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    Thank you for sharing this, GentlemanJim. A lot of thoughtful advice in that article. I especially liked:

    7) Your next gunfight will occur in low light upwards of 80% of the time.
    No training regimen is thus complete, without practice in low-light
    shooting!

    8) During your next gunfight, it is likely you’ll be shooting your pistol
    one-handed, not by preference, but due to necessity. Your “other” hand may
    be occupied with sweeping family-members out of the way, or it may be
    already injured. To be fully prepared, you must dedicate some practice to
    effectively shooting your pistol one-handed, with both strong-side and
    support-side hands!
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)


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    Very interesting and some very good points. Thanks for sharing.
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. --George Washington

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    Thanks for posting that...

    One of my pet projects involves the MO (Medulla Oblongata); or, as was cited in the post, the "brain stem."

    “Instant” de-animation is unlikely with any
    pistol ammunition made, short of a difficult “brain-stem shot.”
    At least he admits it a difficult shot. Size of a walnut, located in the rear of the neck, covered often with a hoodie, hair, and other obstructive clothing, frequently moving, and frankly, invisible.

    Difficult is an understatement.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Interesting article. Thanks for sharing. A lot of that information was taught to us at our CHL class 5 years ago. And during our two hour shooting portion of the class and qualification, we had to shoot some rounds one handed and with our off hand as well as our strong hand. As a result, I always practice one handed shots with both my strong and weak hand, as well as two handed.
    Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King And keep a .45 handy Kimber Custom TLE II

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    “You’re either in the Navy, or you’re not!” “Dabblers” in our Art are
    kidding themselves! Non-serious “recreational” and “competition”
    shooters, who vainly imagine themselves as gun-fighters, are also kidding
    themselves.
    Stay in control. Use your sights. Get your hits. End the fight quickly!
    Great advise....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    One thing that always gets my attention after viewing the re-enactment of the infamous FBI "Miami Shootout" is that all parties involved were hit in the hands. Well, maybe not all, but the clear majority were. I have been working on my SHO and WHO shooting during training sessions as a result.

    Plus that damn IDPA stuff makes me shoot thataway now and then. :)
    Don't try to be fancy. Shoot for the center of mass. The world is full of decent people. Criminals we can do without. -- Jeff Cooper (19202006)

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    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Thanks for posting that...

    One of my pet projects involves the MO (Medulla Oblongata); or, as was cited in the post, the "brain stem."



    At least he admits it a difficult shot. Size of a walnut, located in the rear of the neck, covered often with a hoodie, hair, and other obstructive clothing, frequently moving, and frankly, invisible.

    Difficult is an understatement.
    Maybe he should have said "lucky" but I don't think he relies much on luck.

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    6) Hit-percentages achieved by working patrol officers in actual gunfights
    is sometimes as poor as 12%. However, among well-trained and practiced
    SWAT officers, it often exceeds 95%!
    While I STRONGLY believe in training, I believe that there is much more involved in this statistic than simply marksmanship. Patrol officers are very often engaging "defensively," in that they were not expecting a gunfight until microseconds before the gunfight began. This, and the associated actions (moving away from the threat, trying to seek cover, not knowing the entirety of the situations vis a vis targets/other shooters/bystanders etc), is detrimental to accuracy. SWAT officers are generally responding to a (relatively) known situation, are expecting a gun fight, and are on the "offensive," all of which contributes to getting hits. Additionally, most patrol officer shootings are with handguns, significantly more SWAT shootings are with long guns and, as we all know, it is much easier to get hits with long guns...

    Again, this is NOT to say that training isn't of the utmost importance. I just found it amusing that, in an article supposedly "poking holes" in specious statistics that don't explain the entirety of the situation, Mr. Farnam uses a specious statistic that doesn't explain the entirety of the situation. :)
    GentlemanJim and sdprof like this.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    While I STRONGLY believe in training, I believe that there is much more involved in this statistic than simply marksmanship. Patrol officers are very often engaging "defensively," in that they were not expecting a gunfight until microseconds before the gunfight began. This, and the associated actions (moving away from the threat, trying to seek cover, not knowing the entirety of the situations vis a vis targets/other shooters/bystanders etc), is detrimental to accuracy. SWAT officers are generally responding to a (relatively) known situation, are expecting a gun fight, and are on the "offensive," all of which contributes to getting hits. Additionally, most patrol officer shootings are with handguns, significantly more SWAT shootings are with long guns and, as we all know, it is much easier to get hits with long guns...

    Again, this is NOT to say that training isn't of the utmost importance. I just found it amusing that, in an article supposedly "poking holes" in specious statistics that don't explain the entirety of the situation, Mr. Farnam uses a specious statistic that doesn't explain the entirety of the situation. :)
    I agree, Dave Spaulding covers this in some detail in one of his articles. Hey, nobody's perfect. :)
    Last edited by GentlemanJim; February 21st, 2014 at 06:12 PM.

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    "9) We dare not forget what is sometimes called:

    “The dead man’s five seconds!”

    Violent felons who have been fatally hit, and are in the process of dying,
    who will be found by responding police a short time later, dead at the
    scene (DRT), whose ventricles have been shredded by your bullets, whose
    blood-pressure is thus rapidly dropping to zero- can still, and likely will,
    continue to represent a lethal threat to you for at least five seconds, maybe at
    long as fifteen seconds!
    “Instant” de-animation is unlikely with any
    pistol ammunition made, short of a difficult “brain-stem shot.”

    So, don’t relax too soon! Give your bullets time to complete their deadly
    work, lest you be killed by a “dead man!” Don’t approach wounded
    suspects! Stay at distance, behind cover, prepared to continue shooting when
    necessary."

    Everyone reading this should note this passage. Just because someone is shot, doesn't mean they are no longer a threat, hence why multiple hits are needed.

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