"Stand Your Ground Nation"...from "Slate"

"Stand Your Ground Nation"...from "Slate"

This is a discussion on "Stand Your Ground Nation"...from "Slate" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "Every time we hear about a Zimmerman, a Dunn, or a Cyle Wayne Quadlin, we get a little bit closer to believing that we need ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37
Like Tree64Likes

Thread: "Stand Your Ground Nation"...from "Slate"

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    2,566

    "Stand Your Ground Nation"...from "Slate"

    "Every time we hear about a Zimmerman, a Dunn, or a Cyle Wayne Quadlin, we get a little bit closer to believing that we need to become a Zimmerman, a Dunn, or a Cyle Wayne Quadlin merely to protect ourselves. And then it gets a little bit easier for us to relate to, and to believe, the next Zimmerman, Dunn, or Cyle Wayne Quadlin. It’s a perfect loop of logic. We define the reasonableness of a lethal response by the growing number of lethal responders. “Stand your ground” laws, or at least the public conception of what they do, are changing the way the rest of us think about self-protection. This is, of course, exactly the world the NRA dreams of constructing: Everyone armed and paranoid that everyone else is armed. But the old canard that an armed society is a polite society is pretty much bunk. Ours is not a polite society; we are rude and hotheaded and terrified. Now we have guns to help us sort it all out."
    SNIP

    Rude? Hotheaded? Terrified? If that is her perception of all of us, not just those who choose to carry, then I can see where she's coming from. I just happen to completely disagree with her premise.

    rest here:
    ?Stand your ground? nation: From Trayvon Martin to Jordan Davis, how our understanding of self-defense is changing America.
    blitzburgh likes this.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Rocky Mountains
    Posts
    1,968
    i think this is a perfect candidate for the saying.....

    "a conservative is just a liberal whose been raped."

    then we'll see how she feels about SD and standing your ground. fairies living in la-la land. "why can't we hold hands and sing kumbaya and all get along?" "peace, love, and happiness."

    human nature baby. in geological, evolutionary, or cosmic time scales we aren't even a blink of the eye away from lions tearing apart buffalo on the plains.
    baren, mano3, TVJ and 1 others like this.
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black.
    Posts
    17,304
    I'm not rude . . . but I can be if called for.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,851
    Sounds like a good ol' public drubbing and lambasting, taking the topic out to the woodshed. Bias, methinks. Yeah.


    "But the old canard that an armed society is a polite society is pretty much bunk. Ours is not a polite society; we are rude and hotheaded and terrified. Now we have guns to help us sort it all out."
    The article is bunk, IMO. So is that quote from the article, above.

    If actually the citizenry were armed, then miscreants would have practically no chance of making it out alive. That'd temper much of the goings-on, and would indeed send us toward the "politer" end of the spectrum. As it stands now, very few people actually go around armed in self-defense, and only a portion of those actually learn how to use it, train. If we all actually did have the means of surviving criminal violence against innocents, far more innocents would survive it. And, in the long run, the idjets would be slowly culled. But, until then, single-digit carry percentages just aren't going to have the impact that the ideal (of "an armed society is a polite society") points out is possible and desirable.
    tdave and baren like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array herpjunkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    575
    Well, she's certainly entitled to her opinion. I just wonder how entitled to it she would feel if her home was ever invaded, a gun pointed to her head, or the head of one of her family members, and something really bad ended up happening. My guess, if that ever happened, and she survived, she would be in line at the local gun store buying a nice weapon and renouncing her idiotic ways...
    ccw9mm, baren and Aceoky like this.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,830
    Hmm, so people arm themselves to defend themselves from other people who are armed to defend themselves. Interesting theory; sounds like the kind that comes from a "man of letters," or woman, in this case.

    "For it occurred to me that I should find much more truth in the reasonings of each individual with reference to the affairs in which he is personally interested, and the issue of which must presently punish him if he has judged amiss, than in those conducted by a man of letters in his study, regarding speculative matters that are of no practical moment, and followed by no consequences to himself, farther, perhaps, than that they foster his vanity the better the more remote they are from common sense; requiring, as they must in this case, the exercise of greater ingenuity and art to render them probable."

    Rene Descartes
    Mercurial1 likes this.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,826
    She started with an opinion backed up with a supposition. Then the fact that the Defense Attorney mentioned SYG in closing arguments whether successful or not is grounds for invalidating the law? This woman will only be satisfied if people are mandated to victimization and relief is only to be provided by high priced attorneys after the fact. This is not an attorney bash if I need an attorney I want a darn good one. However if I have the capability to defend me and mine from violent attack. I prefer to do that instead of suffering such attack and then subsequently seeking redress through the courts. Of the cases she was citing One was tried and acquitted(Doesn't she have faith in the courts?)One will spend the rest of his life in prison(How much vengeance does she require?) The final from AZ has yet to be charged or tried.(Does she wish to dispense with such frivolities so she can get on with the hanging?) She's welcome to come back to this when she has put some thought into it.
    CIBMike and Aceoky like this.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,171
    For me it is very easy, use of force was drilled into our heads in my security police days. Intent, opportunity, capability for an offensive in which deadly force is authorized. Stand your ground is not the issue, self defense and defense of others is.
    CIBMike likes this.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,851
    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    For me it is very easy, use of force was drilled into our heads in my security police days. Intent, opportunity, capability for an offensive in which deadly force is authorized. Stand your ground is not the issue, self defense and defense of others is.


    And if they're badgering on the point, it's reasonably clear what they and others are really after: people not having effective means of surviving such violence, given how pliant the citizenry can then otherwise be. Agenda, agenda. Yup.

    Of course, that's the whole point of SYG. Defense. The real issue, though, is that even SYG gives no such pass on responsible actions, no such accounting via the 'reasonable man' standard; it only shifts the effective burden to the claimants, that they must show defense basically couldn't have been the purpose for the defense or the actions were grossly unreasonable and not warranted.
    baren and Aceoky like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array RoadRunner71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    6,442
    Ours is not a polite society; we are rude and hotheaded and terrified.
    Speak for yourself, lady.

    I do believe the psycho-babble folks call that "PROJECTION".
    "Mind own business"
    "Always cut cards"

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,851
    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Ours is not a polite society; we are rude and hotheaded and terrified.
    Speak for yourself, lady.

    I do believe the psycho-babble folks call that "PROJECTION".[/QUOTE]

    Yup.

    Only the violent felons are that way.
    Only the truly frazzled and bedazzled are that way.

    The vast majority of folks are simply going about their business, simply wanting to go about their business unmolested/robbed/murdered.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    3,127
    Welp.... I for one believe the statement, while made by an ill informed individual. Has some merit. I believe today, as I have stated before Stand Your Ground law as written (in Florida) is faulty. I think it's not only faulty I believe the application is faulty in some cases.

    I am as big a supporter of the 2A for the purpose of self defense against any threat including people we pay to protect us. However I see too many high profile cases where justice is denied one person in favor of another based on faulty law. Racently two cases touted as racially biased self defense cases where that was mostly not the case. Two where there was no racial fuel to add to the fire, and one where a woman was denied justice. All indicating what I consider to be faulty law/justice. SYG requires subjective opinion to be accepted as evidence.

    SYG as it's written (in Florida) will IMO just as easily assist in the defense of people who commit crime as a way of life, and even do real murder 1 using SYG as a defense. SYG removes the affermative defense from the shooter. If a Judge agree with it.... no case... go home...

    IMO just based on my own observation in my travels... Some people do seem to act a little more salty.
    denclaste likes this.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,851
    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    Hmm, so people arm themselves to defend themselves from other people who are armed to defend themselves. Interesting theory; sounds like the kind that comes from a "man of letters," or woman, in this case.
    Hmph.

    In reality, folks arm themselves to defend themselves from other people who care not a whit about those armed to defend themselves, hoping beyond hope to find that they're not actually armed at all. It's those people who we're arming ourselves against, not those who are armed to defend themselves.

    Of course, I've got relatives who essentially believe that original pap you pointed out. Guns are bad, thus all who have guns must be bad actors or at least threats. That's where much of the unconstitutional, permissions-scheme crap has come from, I think, from folks who think like this. And, in the end, since the violent criminals are the ones operating outside of the whole thing anyway, the only ones impacted are the upstanding. Ludicrous. It'd have to take a truly well-schooled, uneducated sort to come up with that sort of logic, yet here we are with it in every state. Infuriating.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Fizban's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Southern State USA
    Posts
    739
    This is the way I look at it... Stand your ground changes nothing for me personally.. it does not change the way I look at SD or carrying or my response to a deadly attack. I am not thinking about Zimmerman or what any other yahoo did in his situation. I focus on on what I am doing and what I must do to survive a violent confrontation. I will certainly avail myself of whatever protection [stand your ground] may offer in the aftermath of a SD shooting but its not part of my decision making process. I will always make a prudent effort to avoid violence or a bad situation in general. Its not about what I [can] do but rather what I must do and no more than that.
    Think like a man of action - Act like a man of thought

  15. #15
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    22,158
    You expected something different from an anti?
    Aceoky and kahrcarrier like this.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

how many cases of concealed carry murders?

Click on a term to search for related topics.