When to shoot a bad guy ?

When to shoot a bad guy ?

This is a discussion on When to shoot a bad guy ? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have had my Kansas CCL for about 2 weeks and I am still trying learn and understand the laws, when to draw my gun ...

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Thread: When to shoot a bad guy ?

  1. #1
    Member Array BillG174's Avatar
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    When to shoot a bad guy ?

    I have had my Kansas CCL for about 2 weeks and I am still trying learn and understand the laws, when to draw my gun and shoot using lethal deadly force in a self defense scenario. Hopefully this will never happen.

    I understand the AOJ triangle - Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Castle Doctrine, Stand Your Ground, etc.

    I will try to avoid a bad guy scenario - leave/exit the area, take concealment or cover and use my gun for lethal deadly force in self defense of my loved ones and myself as the very last resort.

    Many of the gun forums I read say once you draw you should shoot immediately before the bad guy (BG) shoots you - many say that in the majority of the cases when the CC person draws their gun but does not shoot immediately the BG backs off or retreats because he is surprised you have a gun and he doesn't want to get shot and possibly killed.

    I have read you should only shoot to protect your loved ones and yourself and not try to be a hero and shoot to protect strangers around you as you might go to jail for trying to protect a stranger. I could see where I might want to try to help another person or people if I thought their life was in grave danger.

    I would like to get this all sorted out in my mind (if that is possible) sooner than later to come up with a mental philosophy or game plan should a self defense scenario ever occurs.

    Does anyone have thoughts or comments? Thanks.
    Train Hard - Be Safe


  2. #2
    Member Array Spotsticker's Avatar
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    If you are worried about the law at the moment you are not in a place to shoot. IMHO
    Whether or not it is your loved ones life or some stranger it is something you have to live with.
    Shooting is when all other options are gone.

    I have drawn once, the crazy lunatic standing at my window screaming at me never saw it and fortunately went away.

    That was the Most scared I have ever been in my life.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    I have faith you will get it worked out. It is also good you consider this so deeply, it is a serious subject and I think some delve into this (CCW) a little too lightly. Maybe a consult with a local-to-you attorney who is educated on your state's SD laws would help you. Or possibly a friend in LE who could "game" or roll play some situations and bounce some ideas around, a force on force class may better prepare your mindset for how fast and dynamic a life or death situation may occur.

    Best wishes on working your way to feeling more comfortable.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Keep it simple; after all lesser means have failed, or cannot be reasonably deployed, and you have no other option left, knowing that the threat of death or serious bodily harm is going to be committed against you.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    If a BG has a gun presented. And the opportunity arises i can draw mine and get a clean shot off...........I would take it.
    oldman45 likes this.
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    Member Array BillG174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spotsticker View Post
    If you are worried about the law at the moment you are not in a place to shoot. IMHO
    Whether or not it is your loved ones life or some stranger it is something you have to live with.
    Shooting is when all other options are gone.

    I have drawn once, the crazy lunatic standing at my window screaming at me never saw it and fortunately went away.

    That was the Most scared I have ever been in my life.
    Thanks for your thoughts. I don't want to be worried about the law at the moment - I want to formulate my philosophy of action before the moment happens.
    Train Hard - Be Safe

  7. #7
    Member Array clint80651's Avatar
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    The way I understand it, if you're justified in pulling your weapon then you're justified in shooting.

    Sent from my window 8 Phone

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    The fact that you made this post indicates that you are thinking about this deeply, which IMHO is a great first step. I am not an LEO and I have not been carrying nearly as long as a lot of the people here. My personal philosophy is that it really does depend on the circumstances. I know that some here will disagree, but I can envision scenarios where I would draw but not necessarily shoot - I have no desire to take another's life unless absolutely necessary. I can also envision scenarios (say a home invasion with my family in the house) where there is no question that I will shoot first and worry about the rest later - my family comes first and there can be no mistakes where they are involved.

    One of the reasons to be a member of this community is to learn from others here. Reading posts along with a lot of good training will help you think through these issues.

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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    Do not try to scare someone with a gun you might succeed. If you and or yours are endangered eliminate the threat.
    RickyD likes this.

  10. #10
    Member Array Bigmac31391's Avatar
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    My only advice to you is read and read and read (including all of your state laws). They're a lot of good books out there also! But it is easy to get way off track on the subject. Stick to the basics and shoot shoot and shoot some more!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array RebelSoul's Avatar
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    When to shoot a bad guy?

    When he's being bad of course!
    tdave, Secret Spuk, ginzo and 2 others like this.
    Duty is ours, consequences are God's.

    - Stonewall Jackson

  12. #12
    Member Array BillG174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
    The fact that you made this post indicates that you are thinking about this deeply, which IMHO is a great first step. I am not an LEO and I have not been carrying nearly as long as a lot of the people here. My personal philosophy is that it really does depend on the circumstances. I know that some here will disagree, but I can envision scenarios where I would draw but not necessarily shoot - I have no desire to take another's life unless absolutely necessary. I can also envision scenarios (say a home invasion with my family in the house) where there is no question that I will shoot first and worry about the rest later - my family comes first and there can be no mistakes where they are involved.

    One of the reasons to be a member of this community is to learn from others here. Reading posts along with a lot of good training will help you think through these issues.
    OP: Thank You!
    Train Hard - Be Safe

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillG174 View Post
    I have had my Kansas CCL for about 2 weeks and I am still trying learn and understand the laws, when to draw my gun and shoot using lethal deadly force in a self defense scenario. Hopefully this will never happen.

    I understand the AOJ triangle - Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Castle Doctrine, Stand Your Ground, etc.

    I will try to avoid a bad guy scenario - leave/exit the area, take concealment or cover and use my gun for lethal deadly force in self defense of my loved ones and myself as the very last resort.

    Many of the gun forums I read say once you draw you should shoot immediately before the bad guy (BG) shoots you - many say that in the majority of the cases when the CC person draws their gun but does not shoot immediately the BG backs off or retreats because he is surprised you have a gun and he doesn't want to get shot and possibly killed.

    I have read you should only shoot to protect your loved ones and yourself and not try to be a hero and shoot to protect strangers around you as you might go to jail for trying to protect a stranger. I could see where I might want to try to help another person or people if I thought their life was in grave danger.

    I would like to get this all sorted out in my mind (if that is possible) sooner than later to come up with a mental philosophy or game plan should a self defense scenario ever occurs.

    Does anyone have thoughts or comments? Thanks.
    I've never understood the "if you must draw you must shoot" school of thought. It's not a set piece scenario. The bad guy may have a gun or the bad guy may have a knife. The bad guy may cut and run as soon as he sees you go for your weapon. Or he may press on.

    It all comes down to when I believe that deadly "force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to me or a third person."

    A fluid situation...I'm not going to shoot if the guy suddenly becomes compliant or he's running away.

    In other words... if my gut tells me I'm about to die or something about as bad....I'll fire...if not...I won't. I can't apply a ruleset to it.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Know your states laws, if a reasonable person would think you were justified in fearing for your life or serious bodily harm you likely are. That is the standard you will be held too.
    And no legally if you draw you dont HAVE to shoot. If the threat stands down or runs you should'nt. Where everyone says shoot if you draw is really more like dont draw unless you know you can shoot and intend too. Waiting can be fatal but if a BG instantly runs or stands down before you pull the trigger then you dont shoot.

    Glockman has it pretty much dead on. Its fairly simple concept based on your states use of force laws and reasonable man standard. If you keep your head you will know.

    The only other thing I can add is having some sort of plan is good but you will never be able to pre plan a response. Whatever plan you have other than basic skills will likely go out the window right off. Things will happen much faster than you can imagine and you will have nothing like the time "Plan" that you think you will in most situations.

    JMO. Worth what you paid for it.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  15. #15
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    It's interesting to note here...of all the things to think about and to consider, if something does come your way, you may have to make that thoughtful, carefully planned decision in just a couple of seconds.
    Ghost1958, TopGun47 and tdave like this.
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