Timing of going off safe.

This is a discussion on Timing of going off safe. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For the last few years i'd basically settled into my EDC being my j-frame. Occassionally i would OC my G21, or my Kimber, or maybe ...

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Thread: Timing of going off safe.

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    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Timing of going off safe.

    For the last few years i'd basically settled into my EDC being my j-frame. Occassionally i would OC my G21, or my Kimber, or maybe even a revolver.

    Now, after hanging around this motley group i have started exploring my various holsters and such again. I realize i really need a better IWB for a 1911... but that's not why i am posting.

    few days ago i was IWB at about 4 o clock with my Kimber 1911 - "cocked and locked".

    my question is quite scenarios specific. i understand if somebody is suddenly on top of me or any other scenario i am draw-to-fire in one action, i will be sweeping the safety off my 1911 as i bring the muzzle to bear.

    so what if i am a bystander at a robbery in a gas station? (say i'm in the back and BG doesn't really even notice me) or some other where i decide to draw, but am in a wait-and-see mode? do i flick the safety off? or do i still wait until the moment i bring the weapon to bear? assume i know to keep my finger out the trigger guard...

    feel free to extrapolate on this one, i have yet to see thread about timing of safety disengagement(maybe there is, sorry if i'm dense) and i am curious what peoples thoughts are and why.
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    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    In my opinion, if you've pulled the weapon in a situation the safety should be off.

    This is assuming of course that by the time you've pulled the weapon you've already determined the need to have it out of it's holster.
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    I take the safety off as I draw. Both in practice, and how I would if it were for real. My finger is still off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot.
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    Off target = on safe.

    On target = off safe.

    The nice thing about a 1911 in this respect, is that it is such a "natural" motion to off-safe. Just train to ALWAYS have your thumb resting on top of the safety.
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    I swipe the safety on the draw and leave my finger out of the trigger guard. You can always flip the safety back on. I even swipe the Glock G20 SF on the draw.
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    I'm not an expert at all, but anyone that carries a gun with manual safety should train with it enough that they are automatically going to disengage the safety when drawing (regardless of whether our not the safety is on). If this is the case i recommend leaving the safety engaged until the draw. Won't take any additional time, and you never know what your trigger finger might do in a tense situation.

    I am interested in what more experienced members have to say.

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    I agree with RoadRunner, except, that if you don't know if there is a BG out of sight, then you lose that precious micro-second.
    The way I had an instructor say it, is that if your gun is drawn, it is show time.
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Off safe on the draw finger off the trigger until it show time.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Something you may want to consider first in your equation is Hick's law. You may be negating any benefit to training on a safety condition during a high stress event when you have multiple carry guns with different functional characteristics (manual safety / no manual safety).
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    I was trained this way: safety off, the moment I draw; and, finger off the trigger until going on-target.

    Works well for training across platforms, to simply train the same way ... that of flicking off the safety each and every time the sidearm is drawn, putting it back on "safe" upon holstering. I'd hate to be training multiple ways, risking injecting hesitancy or "hitches" in my draw/presentation. Same way every time, for me.
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    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    nice. good thoughts all around. Lima Charlie, been running 1911 for a few many moons huh? swiping the slides of Glocks. hasn't gotten that for me yet... haha.

    i'm not so much concerned with fumbling with safety/nosafety during a high stress event. i did enough stressfull competitive fighitng and have an intimate enough connection to all my handguns i am not overly concerned with that.

    i was more concerned with timing. i can see that standard off-safe-during draw stroke, but i can also see waiting if the situation warrants....
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    What WHEC724 said.
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
    nice. good thoughts all around. Lima Charlie, been running 1911 for a few many moons huh? swiping the slides of Glocks. hasn't gotten that for me yet... haha.

    i'm not so much concerned with fumbling with safety/nosafety during a high stress event. i did enough stressfull competitive fighitng and have an intimate enough connection to all my handguns i am not overly concerned with that.

    i was more concerned with timing. i can see that standard off-safe-during draw stroke, but i can also see waiting if the situation warrants....

    My first 1911 was in the Navy in 1963. One of my other carry guns is a FNH FNX-45 Tactical with a 1911 style safety. I treat it and the Glock 20 SF the same. I don't want to have to think about which gun I am carrying. The worst that can happen is I decock the FNX-45 and the first shot is double-action.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
    i'm not so much concerned with fumbling with safety/nosafety during a high stress event. i did enough stressfull competitive fighitng and have an intimate enough connection to all my handguns i am not overly concerned with that.
    .
    I've had students who spoke the almost identical words so here's a test for you. Take the guns you carry and go to the range with a timer. Have a friend run the timer and let them choose the firearm just before the drill starts. Run a few combat shooting and check your time between two runs using the same gun vs two runs with the different guns. Have them switch the gun on a random number of drills and check your times.

    Nearly 100% of the folks I've seen go through this decide that maybe one standard carry gun is a better way to roll despite their "intimate connection" levels with multiple firearms.

    It's kind of like when you own two vehicles, one with the shifter on the column and the other on the center console. I've yet to meet someone with this situation that hasn't got in one vehicle and on occasion grabbed for the shifter in the wrong spot no matter how long they've driven the two.

    Multiple guns with different mechanics may work for you but don't bet your life on it until you're sure. Every fraction of a second may be the deciding factor in your ability to have a good weekend again.
    Last edited by NC Bullseye; March 12th, 2014 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Corrected drill
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    I've had students who spoke the almost identical words so here's a test for you. Take the guns you carry and go to the range with a timer. Have a friend run the timer and let them choose the firearm just before the drill starts. Run a few combat shooting and check your time between two runs using the same gun vs two runs with the same gun. Have them switch the gun on a random number of drills and check your times.

    Nearly 100% of the folks I've seen go through this decide that maybe one standard carry gun is a better way to roll despite their "intimate connection" levels with multiple firearms.

    It's kind of like when you own two vehicles, one with the shifter on the column and the other on the center console. I've yet to meet someone with this situation that hasn't got in one vehicle and on occasion grabbed for the shifter in the wrong spot no matter how long they've driven the two.

    Multiple guns with different mechanics may work for you but don't bet your life on it until you're sure. Every fraction of a second may be the deciding factor in your ability to have a good weekend again.
    Well put. Carry rotations IMO are silly. One manual of arms for carry weapons is my preference.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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