Sign Confusion

Sign Confusion

This is a discussion on Sign Confusion within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello all. I'm a CHL newbie from Ohio. I frequently see these signs posted in restaurants, stores, etc. LIQR_firearm.jpg Now to me, the information on ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array BigBird451's Avatar
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    Sign Confusion

    Hello all. I'm a CHL newbie from Ohio. I frequently see these signs posted in restaurants, stores, etc.

    LIQR_firearm.jpg

    Now to me, the information on that sign contradicts what is said on http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/ohio.pdf :

    "Licensed Class D liquor permit premises if you are consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or are under the
    influence. If you are not consuming, you may carry unless there is a conspicuous sign prohibiting carry.
    Possession of a concealed firearm is allowed in a retail store with a D-6 or D-8 permit as long as the
    concealed carry license holder is not consuming liquor. Class D permits are generally issued to an
    establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on the 13 premises. In any event, do not consume beer or
    intoxicating liquor before carrying a concealed handgun into a licensed premises."

    Could someone please elaborate on meaning of the posted sign? It looks to me like as long as one isn't drinking, there should not be an issue. Thanks!


  2. #2
    Member Array hello1900's Avatar
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    I think you are correct.

    2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.

    A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.
    (1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (e) Any person who is carrying a valid concealed handgun license, as long as the person is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.
    That sign is a 'warning card' from http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.637

    I think it's just worded badly.
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    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    I am not a lawyer, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. That said, did you see the name of the governor on that sign? He is no longer the governor. The law concerning carrying in establishments that serve liquor has changed. It is no longer illegal to go into an establishment that serves liquor per se. However, an establishment may post a sign saying NO firearms are allowed. Furthermore, if you do go into a "bar" and are carrying, you can NOT drink, nor can you have been drinking before if you are carrying.

    I agree with you that the sign you show in your post is very confusing. It appears to just be a holdover from before the law was changed. You would have to ask the bar owner what his/her intentions are when it comes to the sign. Most of the "no weapons" sign I have seen show a pistol outline with a red circle surrounding it with a red slash crossing the gun. However, Ohio does NOT have a specific requirement for the format of a no weapons sign as some states do. You need to ask your friendly local bartender who has that sign posted what he means by it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDE101 View Post
    I am not a lawyer, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. That said, did you see the name of the governor on that sign? He is no longer the governor. The law concerning carrying in establishments that serve liquor has changed. It is no longer illegal to go into an establishment that serves liquor per se. However, an establishment may post a sign saying NO firearms are allowed. Furthermore, if you do go into a "bar" and are carrying, you can NOT drink, nor can you have been drinking before if you are carrying.

    I agree with you that the sign you show in your post is very confusing. It appears to just be a holdover from before the law was changed. You would have to ask the bar owner what his/her intentions are when it comes to the sign. Most of the "no weapons" sign I have seen show a pistol outline with a red circle surrounding it with a red slash crossing the gun. However, Ohio does NOT have a specific requirement for the format of a no weapons sign as some states do. You need to ask your friendly local bartender who has that sign posted what he means by it.
    The sign still is valid, and means what it says. If an unlicensed individual carries a firearm into a liquor establishment, they are guilty of a felony and subject to the penalties described.
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    TRX
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    "Sign, sign, everywhere a sign.
    Breakin' up the scenery,
    messin' my mind..."

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    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The sign still is valid, and means what it says. If an unlicensed individual carries a firearm into a liquor establishment, they are guilty of a felony and subject to the penalties described.
    The sign is out of date and very confusing. It does NOT say anything about licensed or unlicensed individuals. It simply says if you possess a weapon you may be in violation yada, yada, yada, and may be guilty of a felony yada, yada. It was "valid" when it was illegal for anyone (other than a LEO) to possess a weapon in an establishment where alcohol was served. If I see that sign today, the way the law is written today, I do NOT know if the owner is telling me that I cannot carry even if I am licensed or if I cannot carry only if I am NOT licensed. Like I told the OP, he needs to find out the intent of the bar owner. The sign certainly does NOT make it clear what the owner intends. The sign was clear given the OLD law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    "Sign, sign, everywhere a sign.
    Breakin' up the scenery,
    messin' my mind..."
    I like that!
    "Don't shout for help at night, you may wake your neighbors"

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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    In Texas I came across this at my doctors professional Bldg unnamed.jpg. This is not an enforceable sign ( It gets ignored). The only two signs recognized in Texas are 30.06.png and 51Sign.png. These two have the force of law behind them.
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    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    "Sign, sign, everywhere a sign.
    Breakin' up the scenery,
    messin' my mind..."
    Five Man Electrical Band.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

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    Member Array BigJ.56's Avatar
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    I don't care how the sign is worded. I will respect the wishes of the owner(s) of the establishment and not carry. I will decide if I will frequent said establishments now or in the future. Easy peasy.

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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    At least in a sane firearms state like SC, the sign is defined and rather simple to understand, unlike states where the state is an asylum is run by its inmates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDE101 View Post
    The sign is out of date and very confusing. It does NOT say anything about licensed or unlicensed individuals. It simply says if you possess a weapon you may be in violation yada, yada, yada, and may be guilty of a felony yada, yada. It was "valid" when it was illegal for anyone (other than a LEO) to possess a weapon in an establishment where alcohol was served. If I see that sign today, the way the law is written today, I do NOT know if the owner is telling me that I cannot carry even if I am licensed or if I cannot carry only if I am NOT licensed. Like I told the OP, he needs to find out the intent of the bar owner. The sign certainly does NOT make it clear what the owner intends. The sign was clear given the OLD law.
    Do you have a CHL?

    That is a Department of Liquor Control sign. It is mandatory in all alcohol-serving establishments. If the owner doesn't want guns on the premises, the legally-prescribed gun buster signs will be posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_O_E View Post
    I don't care how the sign is worded. I will respect the wishes of the owner(s) of the establishment and not carry. I will decide if I will frequent said establishments now or in the future. Easy peasy.
    That particular sign is required by law in all Ohio establishments which serve alcohol. It is not a gun buster sign.
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    Member Array Compa49's Avatar
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    I'm glad I live in a state where businesses cannot infringe on my right to carry. They can post all the signs they want because signs are not enforceable. And no jurisdiction can pass law more restrictive that state law so I don't have to worry about breaking the law going from one county or city to the other. That is how it should be everywhere.

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    2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.

    (A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

    (B)

    (1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (e) Any person who is carrying a valid concealed handgun license, as long as the person is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.

    (A)(1)(e) Applies to CHL holders. Anyone who is conceal carrying without a permit is going to ignore the sign. They are already breaking the law, so they don't care.
    Aceoky and BigBird451 like this.
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