What do you think qualifies as a "VIOLENT crime"?
This is a discussion on What do you think qualifies as a "VIOLENT crime"? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In another thread, there was the beginning of a semantic question about whether a criminal pointing a gun at someone is committing a "VIOLENT" crime ...
View Poll Results: Does presentation of a gun/knife/club in a crime make it a VIOLENT crime?
- 82. You may not vote on this poll
Yes, as long as a weapon is presented, that makes the crime "violent."
No, the crime is not "violent" until the weapon is used against the victim.
December 31st, 2006 06:03 PM
What do you think qualifies as a "VIOLENT crime"?
In another thread, there was the beginning of a semantic question about whether a criminal pointing a gun at someone is committing a "VIOLENT" crime or just a crime...
So here is a poll. I myself consider menacing someone else, unprovoked, with a weapon, to be a VIOLENT crime, even if no shot is fired, no cut is made, no strike impacts.
Do you feel that the presentation of a weapon, alone (combined with a threat or a demand for money, most likely) constitutes a crime that should be categorized as "violent," or would the weapon have to be actually used (or attempted to be used) in order to be violent?
December 31st, 2006 06:03 PM
December 31st, 2006 06:06 PM
I'll agree with that, displaying the weapon is violent in my opinion. I'll know they're intent.
December 31st, 2006 06:07 PM
Yes I think a bad guy pointing a gun at someone is a violent crime.
In most states, that is considered aggravated assault. It threatens someone with bodily harm or death and puts them in fear of their life. The victim could respond with deadly force to protect themselves so yes, I think that would qualify as a violent crime.
December 31st, 2006 06:11 PM
Depends on the state, doesn't it????
I know in one state, all it takes is the threat of imminent violence constitutes a violent crime.
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December 31st, 2006 06:15 PM
Violence can be direct and literal - or implicit. If literal then there will be physical trauma probably - but implicit is a mere hair's-breadth away from the same. Thus threat is all but close to actual.
Presentation of a gun or other potentially deadly weapon has to be per se an act of violence even before it escalates into the realms of bodily trauma.
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December 31st, 2006 06:17 PM
December 31st, 2006 06:26 PM
When I See A 'Weapon'...
I don't think...Mormon Missionary...
Weapon = Violent (or it's going to be...)
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
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December 31st, 2006 06:36 PM
There are a lot of different types of violent Crime, some don't involve weapons at all. I however definaly believe that the moment someone exposes a weapon that they are willing to use it thereby making the crime violent.
December 31st, 2006 06:55 PM
Man, oh, man....you wouldn't believe what the Federal courts consider to be "violent crimes" or "crimes of violence" under the Sentencing Guidelines.
For instance, escape is "violent", even if no one ever gets hit over the head or handcuffed or anything and the inmate just walks away from an unsupervised detail. So, in many Circuits, is "felon in possession" of a firearm, even if the gun is never displayed, fired or even loaded.
The logic is that those things have inherent in them an easily reached "potential" for violence coming from them.
Under that "logic", pretty much everything criminal is a "violent" crime. But that's the way it is.
The criminal justice system is messed up, but not ONLY in ways that are obvious or which favor criminals.
I didn't vote in the poll, since legally both scenarios are going to be "violent" in many contexts.
December 31st, 2006 06:57 PM
My notes are back up at school, but I'll do the best I can without them. Only the threat of force is needed for it to be a crime if there is apparent means to back it up. Major violent crimes include but are not limited to, murder, rape, robbery, agg assault. Actually most offenses that involve direct interaction are violent crimes.
Robbery is forcibly taking, or attempting to take, something from someone else's posession. It is always a violent crime. Burglary or larceny are property crimes, and the victim is not present when the items are taken. Robbery, armed or not, is a violent crime against an individual, shoplifting (a form of larceny) is a non violent crime, because there is no interaction with store employees, just grab and go.
Violent crime does not need to involve a weapon, i.e. simple assault like a bar fight, and goes all the way up to using whatever weapon you can imagine. A guy with his finger in his jacket pocket saying to give him money or he'll shoot is committing a violent crime, robbery, even though it is only his finger. Just my .02
December 31st, 2006 06:59 PM
Brandishing a weapon combined with a threat shows intent to cause harm. That would be a violent crime, IMO.
+1 raevan and SixBravo-violent crimes does not necessarily involve weapons
December 31st, 2006 07:00 PM
My plug nickle, while may not be recognized by law is if there is significant threat of trauma. Of course I concider drunk driving a violent crime due to the amount of damage a vehicle can do to the human body. Or even taking it a step farther that muslim in North Carolina that used his vehicle as a weapon to mow down pedistrians would most definately fall into the catagory as a violent crime.
Now, if someone spit on me it would be assault but I wouldn't classify it as a violent crime unless they followed it up with their fists +. But that's just my plug nickle
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December 31st, 2006 07:37 PM
I think in most states the threat or implied threat of violence constitutes a violent crime.
The bank robber with nothing but his finger inside his coat pocket constitutes a "violent” crime; just a note saying "I have a gun" during the robbery constitutes a "violent" crime.
A guy here where I live was just sent up for 25 years for "armed robbery" and all he did was hand the teller a note saying "I have a gun; give me the money". He was caught very quickly and no weapon was found.
Some BG says to me "give me your money and nobody gets hurt" I will conceder that a violent crime and react accordingly.
December 31st, 2006 08:29 PM
Absolutely it's a violent act.
Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey
I don't believe you have to bleed to justify defending yourself. If someone pulls a knife/gun/club on me while demanding anything the implied threat to me is great bodily harm or death. I'm not going to wait to find out which. If they didn't mean you harm they wouldn't carry such weapons while commiting a crime.
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December 31st, 2006 09:13 PM
I apologize for my rant earlier in this thread. I've put my recent professional frustrations aside and voted, siding with the majority. Just presenting that piece makes it violent enough for me.....
What's more, if a BG presents to me while threatening me/holding me up, etc., it really doesn't matter if HE intends to be violent, because I sure as hell am fixing to be pretty damned violent pretty damned quick!
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