Mental illness diagnosis after obtaining CCL

This is a discussion on Mental illness diagnosis after obtaining CCL within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My biological mother was recently diagnosed as being bipolar after she has had her CCL for about 4 years. She's had a history of some ...

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    New Member Array kayaly2004's Avatar
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    Mental illness diagnosis after obtaining CCL

    My biological mother was recently diagnosed as being bipolar after she has had her CCL for about 4 years. She's had a history of some anxiety issues but has never been committed, been a danger to anyone, or a danger to herself. She experienced these mood swings all the time, but this has been corrected with the diagnosis and new medication. I searched in Ohio concealed carry law and just found that's it's legal to carry as long as she's never been involuntary committed or her doc doesn't say she's a danger etc.
    Say, God forbid, that she would have to defend herself..how would the legalities work since the mental illness wasn't marked on the application for the permit or purchase of the firearm?
    Also, when it comes time for her renewal, will she have a harder time keeping her CCL?
    I'm not to proficient when it comes to the laws and mental illness. I just know you don't need a gun if you're batty or crazy which she isn't.
    Another point, no answer is going to offend me. She's not exactly high on top of my favorite people list (notice calling her "biological mother"). Just wanting to know since she asked me about it. And I'm curious since illnesses like this can be hereditary, so I'd like to know in case my brother and I unfortunately received more of her genes than we would have liked.
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    Here in SC, it is based on being declared mentally incompetent from a judge. Having depression or BiPolar is not a debilitating illness, as long as treatment is in process. My thoughts (not a leqal eagle) is that as long as she is seeking treatment and is on her perscribed meds, it should not affect a post shooting decision or a renewal.
    It might come into play for a civil suit, that, is anyones guess.

    Just my 2 cents
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    Member Array rtroha's Avatar
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    As long as she can truthfully answer "no" to the following questions from the Ohio application, she should be able to renew her Ohio CHL.

    13) (a) Have you ever been adjudicated as mentally incompetent or mentally defective?
    (b) Have you ever been committed to a mental institution?
    (c) Have you ever been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital or facility for purposes other than observation?
    (d) Have you ever been adjudicated as mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated as incompetent to manage your own affairs or ever been committed to a mental institution?
    http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/F...ion-FINAL.aspx

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    Mentally defective. Hmmm... I've been accused of such but never adjudicated.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Bi polar is not an illness that is going to cause her to go around shooting people for no reason, she is at slightly higher risk to herself due to the depression side of things. But considering she hasn't harmed herself before, no reason to think she will in the future and treatment for bi polar is fairly effective.

    She is not mentally incompetent and can take care of herself. Someone should explain to her that if she is ever involved in a shooting she should not answer ANY questions, also she should not carry her medications on her unless she is traveling. The goal would be to make sure the "illness" question never comes up. A lawyer shouldn't be able to find out about her illness unless someone tells him or if the police find the medication. It most likely wouldn't be an issue for the criminal side of thing but could easily become one on the civil side.
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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    It should not impact her current carry status as long as those aforementioned "dis-qualifiers" have not been met.

    However, and this is beyond the scope of your current question--my educated guess is that the politicos in D.C. (as in Washington DC) will:

    (1) be using our own doctors to spy and report on us (Obama administration already "ruled" that it is NOT a violation of HIPPA for our Docs to report gun owners with mental health issues) and

    (2) they will dramatically (but slowly over time) increase the number of diagnosed mental conditions which will warrant the Federal Govt's seizure of our own firearms--(for our own protection from ourselves you understand of course).
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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Not only that, but if she has to defend herself an anti-gun, zealous prosecutor will most certainly charge her with murder and do everything he can to bring it up at a trial.

    Being aware of ALL the legal ramifications of Defensive Carry is critical, and she has additional ones that should be discussed with an attorney. I would also get something dated from her Doc saying she is of sound mind to carry beforehand. Einstein said, (something like) "If you don't plan for the future ahead of time you won't have one." I say, "If you carry and don't plan for your legal defense you aren't going to have a very good one."
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    (1) be using our own doctors to spy and report on us (Obama administration already "ruled" that it is NOT a violation of HIPPA for our Docs to report gun owners with mental health issues) and
    .
    Sorry but that is just not true. There is an memo that says that Doctors "may" ask about gun ownership. But there is no way for a doctor to "report" gun owners unless they are a danger to themselves or others. In fact it would be against the law.
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    My opinion: Unless a Judge orders you into treatment, what ever you do personally is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. I can see this coming You have a divorce, you lose a close relative or friend, you served in the military and saw combat. Many issues pop up where you might need a Psychiatrist or Psychologist, but that doesn't make you dangerous. If you live in the land of LIBTARDIA they will try to use it to their advantage!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayaly2004 View Post
    My biological mother was recently diagnosed as being bipolar after she has had her CCL for about 4 years. She's had a history of some anxiety issues but has never been committed, been a danger to anyone, or a danger to herself. She experienced these mood swings all the time, but this has been corrected with the diagnosis and new medication. I searched in Ohio concealed carry law and just found that's it's legal to carry as long as she's never been involuntary committed or her doc doesn't say she's a danger etc.
    Say, God forbid, that she would have to defend herself..how would the legalities work since the mental illness wasn't marked on the application for the permit or purchase of the firearm?
    Also, when it comes time for her renewal, will she have a harder time keeping her CCL?
    I'm not to proficient when it comes to the laws and mental illness. I just know you don't need a gun if you're bat s*** crazy which she isn't.
    Another point, no answer is going to offend me. She's not exactly high on top of my favorite people list (notice calling her "biological mother"). Just wanting to know since she asked me about it. And I'm curious since illnesses like this can be hereditary, so I'd like to know in case my brother and I unfortunately received more of her genes than we would have liked.
    In NY State, the question on forms is "21. [Have You] Suffered from mental illness, or due to mental illness received treatment, been admitted to a hospital or institution, or taken medication? List Doctor’s/Institutions, Name, Address, Phone #, in explanation

    So this is about Mental Illness and largely about hospitalization, not one's private issues with moods, troubling situations, seeing a Therapist or taking common meds as long they are not mind-altering, cause extreme fatigue or something like some of any meds can - it is not needed to put it down unless you're asking for trouble. Like Anti-Depressants or a mild anxiety med is not mind-altering, I mean in the street-sense.

    By the way, I don't know if a bi-polar condition would be considered "Mental Illness" - although bi-polar untreated could lead to a mania or depression that became psychotic I don't think it usually is termed a Mental Illness or Psychotic manias/depressions are a hallmark. "Mentally Ill" is usually reserved for the major psychoses: Schizophrenia, Psychotic delusional, hallucinations etc. all of which the sufferer takes as real. I,e, Mental Illness is a split from ordinary perceptions of reality.

    Check that out, use of the term medically. Be sure. If it is considered a Mental Illness her Doctor can always write a note that she is able to use handguns normally and has no break with reality. And look carefully at the question on whatever form she filled out. I bet it is about the same as my state. Breaks with reality, i.e. the Major Psychoses are what is meant. Court Ordered hospitalizations because the person is a danger to others or themselves legally. Besides, outside of Court Commitments - there are absolutely no records of anything else. Use common sense also. Do you have doubts about the person's mental state currently and using guns? Or has nothing changed to you in that way?

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    Say, God forbid, that she would have to defend herself..how would the legalities work since the mental illness wasn't marked on the application for the permit or purchase of the firearm?
    Nothing you do now can change the facts. Accordingly, that is the perfect reason to not pursue an answer to the above question. In other words, you would not want an answer to the above to affect your decision to defend yourself or not defend yourself.

    Additionally, any answer to the above will be a speculation and supposition based on conjecture, which will be about as worthless as any of our opinions, or that of any attorney that promised you he could answer that question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Sorry but that is just not true. There is an memo that says that Doctors "may" ask about gun ownership. But there is no way for a doctor to "report" gun owners unless they are a danger to themselves or others. In fact it would be against the law.
    Being that .Gov has access to your medical records the doctor's report isn't necessary.
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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Sorry but that is just not true. There is an memo that says that Doctors "may" ask about gun ownership. But there is no way for a doctor to "report" gun owners unless they are a danger to themselves or others. In fact it would be against the law.
    It appears that you are correct. I think this Obama Administration Moves To Alter Gun-Buying Rules : The Two-Way : NPR is what I saw reference to and did not read it clearly enough. However, I still think that this HIPPA and Doctors may potentially become a viable avenue for future gun control of all of us.

    Any "law" (for example HIPPA) can be modified/changed by the govt. thru "due process" [for example the ACA (Obamacare) is a LAW, yet the administration has made a significant number of new "rules" in its implementation].......... Rule Would Lift HIPAA Barriers to Background Gun Checks - Health Data Management Magazine Article

    I don't normally think of myself as needing a tinfoil hat, nor am I conspiracy theorist. I do however, try to pay attention to trends and patterns. I find the following statement from the NPR article to be particularly disturbing:
    That part of the plan involves the Department of Justice, which is proposing the term "committed to a mental institution," which appears in its gun ownership regulations, be accepted to include "a person committed to involuntary inpatient or outpatient treatment."
    That is a pretty darn big brush that they want to paint with......
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    New Member Array kayaly2004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Nothing you do now can change the facts. Accordingly, that is the perfect reason to not pursue an answer to the above question. In other words, you would not want an answer to the above to affect your decision to defend yourself or not defend yourself.

    Additionally, any answer to the above will be a speculation and supposition based on conjecture, which will be about as worthless as any of our opinions, or that of any attorney that promised you he could answer that question.
    I just didn't know if there was any kind of law that addressed this kind of issue not just simply looking for opinions. I tried searching for something of the effect throughout the Ohio concealment laws, but couldn't find anything that pertained to this type of situation or anything close.

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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Bipolar is pretty frustrating. It's one of those diseases that tends to drive away people.
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
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    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

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