January 3rd, 2007 01:42 AM
Sticky or Button for Stand Your Ground Status
I was wondering if the admin or interested parties could do a sticky or a button for a page that lists an up to date reference on the Stand Your Ground laws state by state, and do they apply where you have a right to be (Florida), or only in the house/vehicle/business (Arizona?). Also a rating on the states based loosely on actual self-defense cases showing a general guide, (not legal advice) for states positions on the use of force. For example what states do you have to prove you were justified, vs. where the state has to prove you weren't. It would be a good guide to know what states are friendly (Florida) to judicious self-defense and which ones weren't (New Jersey).
January 3rd, 2007 03:56 AM
Sounds like a lot of work, and a great idea for a standalone website... run with it!
January 3rd, 2007 04:11 AM
While we Do discuss legal issues here, it's hard to be comprehensive
on All subjects related to self defense.
I recommend the following site. http://www.handgunlaw.us/
It has direct links to just about Everything.
I find it invaluable for legal and legislative info.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
January 3rd, 2007 06:40 AM
January 3rd, 2007 07:12 AM
Aksrule hit it that is the site defered to for most of the stuff like that but a warning its not always up to date so make sure of the laws where you live and where you plan on going
January 3rd, 2007 11:22 AM
Understood, but I'm tired of sites that just post a copy of statutes. There are even lawyers that can't agree on the meaning. Some of the wording is vague. Like Vermont says you can't carry in "Schools". Is that primary and secondary like most states, or universities as well? There must be some on here that have an idea which states are more favorable than others.
January 3rd, 2007 05:16 PM
AKsrule suggested I check out handgunlaw RE stand your ground law. Here was Gary's vague response. It's nice to brag about having CCW, but if the police and prosecutors are un-friendly to those who defend themselves outside their home what's the purpose to carry anyway if you only find yourself in prison with the very thugs you want to defend yourself against. Perhaps SOMEONE might want to tackle this and post a list of DEFENSE FRIENDLY states...
Originally Posted by AKsrule
HERE IS THE ASNWER I GOT WHEN I POSED THE QUESTION TO HANDGUNLAW.US:
When it comes to self defense the stand your ground laws as they call
them will only get people killed. As a trainer and I have trained a
lot of people I tell everyone of them if you can retreat safely do it.
If you can't retreat and you are in fear of death or grave bodily harm
then stop the attacker/s any way you can to save yourself or your
The question I have put to the 900+ people I have trained is: If your
family is safe and secure outside your home and you can retreat from
your home safely is there anything in that house worth you dying for?
If your family is safe and secure outside your home and you can
retreat safely is there anything in your house worth spending the rest
of your life paralized from the neck down and your family then having
to take care of you and wipe your ass for you?
Ask the same Questions for any where you are at. Once the bullets
start flying anything can happen. As long as my loved ones are safe
and I can get out safely that is what I and everyone else should do.
Nothing in a house is worth my life.
If I am attacked and I can not retreat safely and I fear for my life
or limb I will react as I have trained and do everything I can to stop
the attack. That is self defense in the 36 states I can legally carry
a concealed handgun in. If you can safely retreat that is always your
best course of action that is why I see no use to put Stand your
ground laws on Handgunlaw.us. Thank You and Stay Safe, Gary Slider
January 3rd, 2007 06:25 PM
yes it is very tricky and slippery worded on purpose i think
Originally Posted by vermonter
January 3rd, 2007 08:11 PM
I doubt the law is clear in all aspects of SD - anywhere. Always some grey areas. Not sure actually if it's even possible to firm things up to the degree we may like.
Gary S speaks a lot of good sense.
No amount of castle or stand ground laws - (and I am in favor of them - most so when a proven felon is killed or injured and deprived the right of civil action) .......... will stop me still having as a prime choice - retreat and get outa Dodge.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
January 3rd, 2007 08:41 PM
I agree w/ P95. the stand your ground laws are great in that it protects the self defense person with civil liability. I too would rather retreat than have to shoot someone.
Property isn't worth someones life.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
January 3rd, 2007 08:44 PM
It is precisely because of the lack of clarity and uncertainty in the law that the best advice is to avoid the confrontation if at all possible, and retreat if you and your family can safety do so, even if legally you might have been able to stand your ground. The risk of being injured, killed or ruined financially is simply not worth the risk. Sorry guys, but IMO, like it or not, when you get a permit and elect to be armed you need to leave your ego and macho at the door before you leave your house. If you can't or will not do so, then you should think long and hard about whether you really should be carrying. This may sound harsh, but I am afraid that is the current reality we have to deal with.
January 3rd, 2007 08:48 PM
P95carry, I agree. I spent 6 years in military police and have had enough professional contact with public safety to know most police officers are not your "friends". There are many good and fair people in law enforcement, and some who will do anything to get a conviction. I have seen brutal policing in Florida, New Jersey, Mass (not to pick on these states), and REALLY kind and fair police in Kentucky, Vermont and Maine. Example: The Orange County Sheriff's Dept in Florida has some really Jack booted tactics. I lived there and have seen them rough up people for no reason. A good example was the Miami Commander they pulled over on the turnpike. Yes, he was an nasty arrogant jerk, but I would have said "have a nice day" and sent him on his way. He snatched his license, but I hardly think the policeman was injured b/c of that. I would not have sprayed a commander for somthing like that. A report to his his chief would have been in order. I have seen this attitude with the NJ and Ohio State Police too. When I was in Kentucky I have met troopers who were warm and welcoming, yet firm (but fair) when necessary. This is not meant to bash police or a particular state, but my observation is that not all states are the same. In some states if two parties are fighting it doesn't matter if one was acing in self defense.... All go directly to jail. Is that fair? I am sure there are jusisdictions that if you had to shoot someone who was CLEARLY threatening your life, you would be arrested and have to prove yourself innocent, like New Jersey. There are other states whe you would get a pat on the back, like Indiana. There needs to be some guide for self defense like the CCW guide that says "don't even stop when transporting in NY", but "in DE open car carry is OK". Someone must have some input like don't even think about defending yourself in DC! I challenge users of this forum to look at stories from their states and personal experiences then rate them on this sticky. I will start with Vermont and state the facts as I know them. This is not intended to be a legal primer, just my opinion based on cases and observations.
If you are threatened in VT with deadly force you must use similar force. You cannot use a gun against a fist unless you are a small woman that a jury would side with and can claim a disparity defense. You may use a gun against a knife or gun IF the party has the means (gun) and shows intent (points it at you). There is no duty to retreat inside or outside your home, but you must use the level of force in response to the same level of force only. You will not automatically be arrested in VT. In a case involving deadly foce where it appears justified the States Atty will determine if charges should be filed, not the police. This does not mean an automatic arrest. In cases where it appeared to be justified the shooter has been released pending the investigation. In cases were it appeard not to be justified, he can be held without bond. Overall the police are very friendly and not anti-gun. A great state to live in EXCEPT for the cost of living and the sheeple moving here from PRNJ and MA.
Last edited by vermonter; January 3rd, 2007 at 08:55 PM.
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