National Parks...what is the possible punishment?

This is a discussion on National Parks...what is the possible punishment? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I'm going on a road trip with the wife out to CA again this next fall, and I quite want to see Zion National ...

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Thread: National Parks...what is the possible punishment?

  1. #1
    Member Array nicneufeld's Avatar
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    National Parks...what is the possible punishment?

    So I'm going on a road trip with the wife out to CA again this next fall, and I quite want to see Zion National Park again. My CCW was issued from Utah, so in that state its no problem, but National Parks, its verboten.

    My wife really doesn't like the idea of going on long hikes in the wilderness "unprepared", and I don't much like it too. I've heard some people advocate the don't ask, don't tell policy....I'd just like to know what kind of punishment would be possible...a slap on the wrist? Fine? Misdemeanor? Felony with jail time? Public hanging on the spot? Just curious.

    I know about the bill to legalize it, but I have my doubts the newly elected regime will make former senator allen's bill a top priority, sadly.

    Thanks!

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  3. #2
    Member Array BlueMerle's Avatar
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    IANAL

    My rule when it comes to National Parks is "The Feds don't play!". I properly secure all weapons before entering national park land.

    Now, when it comes to the Post Office I use the "Don't ask, don't tell" rule. Only because I am in and out at the Post Office. Not spending several days or weeks as I would be at a National Park.

    I do carry a big knife. Better than nothing.


    Just my 2 cents

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    The other gentle reminder is that if you choose to carry and get caught, you have broken FEDERAL law........ Never a good idea!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    While I agree that CCW in Fed parks should be legal, it is still against Fed law to do so.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Member Array nicneufeld's Avatar
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    Glad to get this bit of advice!

    Going to jail, losing my chp for life, stuff like that, will hardly be in the interest of self-protection in the long run!

    Is it legal to carry a knife, then, I assume, and are there federal guidelines on what sort of knife? (no, I will not be carrying a broadsword :D )

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    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    Maybe I misunderstood- are you saying your Utah license is accepted in California? Or is this park you want to go to not in CA?

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    Member Array nicneufeld's Avatar
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    Zion is in Utah...we'll be visiting on our way back from CA.

    Yeah, in CA, I have yet to fully research the law, but I'm assuming it will be unloaded, dismantled, and locked away securely!

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    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    Gotcha, it sounded like you were thinking your Utah permit was honored, since I didn't know where that park is

    There might actually be a public hanging if you take your evil gun into CA....

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    Member Array nicneufeld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    There might actually be a public hanging if you take your evil gun into CA....
    More likely a witch-hunt style burning. Burn the Gun-Owner! Well if I have it loaded with Super-Evil Cop-Killer JHP bullets, the protective Evil Aura that surrounds me won't allow anyone to get close enough to me for that. :D

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    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    Oh no! Not Cop Killer Bullets!

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    This link is from Big Bend Natioal Park on the Texas Mexico border.[URL="http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/firearms.htm"]
    In essence the gun must be declared when entering the park and "broken down" placed out of sight and ammo seperated.
    I'd feel a lot better in that part of the world being able to use my CHP.
    In addition the possibility of confiscation exists if Ranger was correct.
    Enjoy your trip and also be aware that Indian Reservations each have
    thier own tribial laws which you will be subject to.May come into play in Utah.
    truck

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    Try...

    and enjoy your 'defenseless' vacation...

    Hurry home so you can be 'armed and safe' again...

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    FYI:

    Penalties under 36 CFR Sec 1.3 et seq:

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....0.1.3&idno=36

    This might be your only option, and I bet the Sup won't sign off on it:

    36 CFR Sec 2.4(d): The superintendent may issue a permit to carry or possess a weapon, trap or net under the following circumstances:
    (1)...
    (2) To carry firearms for persons in charge of pack trains or saddle horses for emergency use;
    (3)...
    (4) To provide access to otherwise inaccessible lands or waters contiguous to a park area when other means of access are otherwise impracticable or impossible.

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....0.1.4&idno=36

    If you articulate your request in a very colorful manner...say...you could argue that you want access to...umm...those lands and its imperative, for your safety, that you posses a firearm for protection agains dangerous animals/wildlife... unless the NPS preffers to send a Ranger with you to protect you.

    Like I said, I don't think you'll get it, but you don't waste more than $0.39 in mailing a request. Then, if something happens to you, file suit againts the NPS for not allowing you to carry a firearm.

    Edit:

    After re-reading the CFR, you could also articulate that you wish to be afforded equal protection under the law (Sec 1, 14th Amend US Cons) - the same protection being extended to the people protected by rule #2 above (the pack mule/horse leader issue).

    Re-read your rights (linkls below) under the 1st and 14th Amend US Cons, 5 USC Sec 554 and 5 USC Sec 701 et seq, then if you feel "froggy", stipulate that you intend to request a formal hearing/judicial review to refute unfavorable decisions by the NPS. The Sup may mail you the permit just not to deal with the tons of paperwork the'll have to file if you do request a hearing/appeal to the US Dist Court.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...tml#amendmenti

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...ndmentxiv.html

    http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/tit...hapterii_.html

    http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/tit...chapter7_.html

    I used a similar tactic at state level with the equivalent of the federal law, and it worked. Give it a try, who knows, maybe you get your own case named after you and open up firearms carry in NPS grounds.

    Disclaimer - not issuing legal advice
    Last edited by cagueits; January 4th, 2007 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Forgot to add something / forum down for maintenance last night

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    Member Array walther1's Avatar
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    The punishment is...you will be forced to watch The View with special guest stars Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton. If you don't want your eyes to bleed you will not violate Federal Law.
    -------------
    Walther1

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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walther1 View Post
    The punishment is...you will be forced to watch The View with special guest stars Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton. If you don't want your eyes to bleed you will not violate Federal Law.
    I'm pretty sure I threw up a little in my mouth when I read that. God that would be awful.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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