No CCW in Gunshops: Opinions please.
This is a discussion on No CCW in Gunshops: Opinions please. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The gunshop and indoor range where I work part time has a new owner. We have a sign outside that says "No loaded guns permitted ...
January 7th, 2007 09:13 PM
No CCW in Gunshops: Opinions please.
The gunshop and indoor range where I work part time has a new owner. We have a sign outside that says "No loaded guns permitted inside except on the range". This was a policy of the old owner. I have never agreed with it. Of the other big gunshops in town, two others post "no loaded or concealed weapons", while three others do not. We are the only indoor range. Today I had a conversation with the new owner, a young guy, about it. My main arguments were that we should absolutely support CCW and that, as with any other business, CCW holders were not a problem. I argued that generally we do not like to spend money in places that do not like us to carry, so why should we post. I argued that we could post something like "Do not handle loaded weapons outside of the range" or something that was more CCW friendly. He argued that no one had objected to it, that some unskilled carriers were known to shoot at the range, and that it could be dangerous to someone if a robbery was to happen and they drew while we employees were preparing to shoot back. He also pointed out that the old owner still works there while the new owner gets up to speed on the business and that it was always the old policy, so he was reluctant to change it while the old owner was still around. I was not totally able to convince him of my point of view on the subject. SO.........
In the fine tradition of Combat Carry, I'd like to ask for your opinions, thoughts, and arguments on the subject. I plan to show this discussion to him at our next meeting. I have a feeling I know how this thread is about to go, so no hard feelings, fire away.
Thank you all.
January 7th, 2007 09:13 PM
January 7th, 2007 09:22 PM
I have seen sign like that and bullet holes in the ceiling to say why they didnt want people to carry
the range i got to now has a sign like you suggest no handling of loaded firearms except on range and then says if it was concealed when you came it need to stay that way till you leave
I see both sides of it since you know ya always get the bonehead that want to pull out there loaded pistol from holster to ask a question about it
Of course i prefer to carry loaded and wont go to a gun shop that has the now loaded firearms sign
January 7th, 2007 09:22 PM
I see his point, and I can't say I disagree with him. He is in a catch22, he needs to support CCW and the employees.
I would tend to think that this is one of those rules that won't be enforced unless it needs to be. In other words, dont be a meathead and you will be OK.
January 7th, 2007 09:23 PM
January 7th, 2007 09:26 PM
I don't know of a shop locally that allows the loaded carry of firearms so that kind of leaves us high and dry if we want to shop for guns. I wish it weren't that way.
Walk steathly - and carry a big Springfield.
January 7th, 2007 09:27 PM
The shop and range I shoot at has a similar policy. When I asked about it I was told it was an insurance issue. Could be true or a lot of hot air.
January 7th, 2007 09:27 PM
Of the gunstores I frequent in two different cities, the prevailing policy is that a loaded weapons, including CCW's, must remain in the holster (although if they are concealed, who knows about them). There is on gunshop I know of in Cincinnati that doesn't allow CCW's at all, but they are overpriced and once tried to convince me that a Mossberg 835 was a 500 Persuader. The one with an indoor range has no posted policy, but it is probably along the lines of, keep it holstered. I would have problems with the policy, and it might make me find somewhere else to shop/shoot.
If they are telling me that I can't defend myself at a GUN STORE where I spend a fair amount of my money, I am sure I could find another one to seperate me and my cash. If I am in there while it is being robbed, who says that I trust the guys behind the counter to take out the BG?
There are few things more useless than an unloaded pistol, a gun store owner should be aware of that. And the only people that will obey that rule, are the GG's anyways.
January 7th, 2007 09:28 PM
Not handling guns off the range, or CCW stays concealed the whole times sounds like a good policy. We have that up here at a local gun shop. seems to work well, no bullet holes from customers.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
January 7th, 2007 09:29 PM
It is indeed ''catch 22''. I see both sides.
Sadly the few dipsticks who might come in carrying, can mess things up for all by carelessness. There are way too many inept shooters out there.
I could accept CCW stays CCW - and shoot your other stuff ..... but looking at the broad picture, I guess this is a ''catch-all'' decision to avoid problems.
This is looking at the range aspect - as far as carry into gun shop, I think that should be OK - as long as idiot folks do not go drawing their piece and asking for mag's that fit, while waving the darned thing around.
Sad thing is - decisions have to be made, according to lowest common denominator. Which hopefully excludes most of us but .. there are plenty of dufus brigade ''out there''.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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January 7th, 2007 09:32 PM
Gun stores are not on the carry prohibition list in my state, regardless of their policy.
January 7th, 2007 09:33 PM
Boneheads like you describe exist and reproduce. Had an old gentleman pull out a loaded AMT .22 once that tried to demonstrate that it was loaded and wouldn't fire because it was broken (the safety was on). Had a nice lady come in just last week with a cocked S&W .38 that she could not unload after she cocked it in response to a "bump in the night". And yes, for our regulars, we don't care or enforce the policy, but our regulars are not usually the boneheads as described. That's how they got to be regulars I guess.
I still maintain that we are no different than the tire store or the movie theater that we get angry at when we see a "no guns" sign on the door. Don't forget that the sign is legally meaningless in FL anyway.
Thanks again and keep it coming.
January 7th, 2007 09:38 PM
Perhaps the wording could be changed to make everyone happy. Such as; No handling loaded firarms, or all loaded weapons must be holstered, or how about "no morons".
Do morons know they are morons?
January 7th, 2007 09:51 PM
I actually don't know if I actually disagree with that policy. I'd like to see it written differently but rules of common sense have to be spelled out as many don't have a clue.
I see people all the time at gun shop's and/or ranges that have gotten there CHL or are thinking of getting it and have absolutely no clue what they are doing. I believe that eveyone that is legal to carry should be able to of course but I'd like to see them recieve professional training. Many don't and as a result things can and obviously do happen that force a business, even one such as this to set boundries and rules for the one's that have little sense or haven't been taught a good gun safety background.
Sad but true!
Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!
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January 7th, 2007 09:56 PM
Gun stores that say "NO" CCW on premises do not get my business!
In my state they can not prohibit so it does not matter about actual carry. I would legally ignore the sign and never return.
I do NOT see both sides of the story. A store SHOULD have a set of gun rules posted outside the door and just inside the door saying:
"ALL GUNS BROUGHT INTO THIS STORE ARE TO BE UNLOADED AND WITH ACTIONS OPEN -EXCLUDING CCW. ALL CCW CARRIERS MUST KEEP THEIR GUNS HOLSTERED AT ALL TIMES. ALL UNLOADING OF GUNS FOR CCW OR OTHER MUST BE UNLOADED BEFORE ENTERING OF STORE! IF ITS GOT BULLETS IN IT IT STAYS HOLSTERED INSIDE OF STORE PERIOD! IF IT NEEDS UNLOADING YOU MUST LEAVE STORE UNLOAD AND THEN RETURN WITH ACTION OPEN! IF YOU NEED HELP LEAVE GUN IN VEHICLE AND ASK FOR HELP"
I'm sure with some thought this could be worded more succinctly. I have little sympathy for the gun stores because I have NEVER seen a properly worded or displayed sign outside ANY gunstore. Simply saying "No Loaded Guns" is ridiculous. This year in my local gun store a kid fired off a .270 walking up to the counter for scope mounting. I personally had a woman aim a loaded rifle at me in the store while trying to unsuccessfully unload the rifle. The employees made her leave to unload the rifle with her protesting at being treated badly. She should have read the non-existant sign outside saying "we will help you unload your firearm at your vehicle if you have a loaded or problem firearm". What she did was stupid and ignorant, but forgiveable due to her ignorance, but the gun store's lack of a properly worded sign is stupid and unforgiveable because they should no better. They are allegedly professionals.
A gun store/range creating anti-2nd Ammendment policy because they do not have the good sense and or balls to confront and not tolerate dangerous gun handling is un-American and unforgiveable!
If someone is stupid set them straight politely and offer to advise/train them in proper gun handling protocol and etiquette as established by the professionals in our Military/LE sectors and the NRA which your establishment abides by. If they do not comply lose them as a customer and have some grit and principles that you do not back down from and live and do business with that integrity or become part of the problem of companies, institutions and government agencies that create anti-2nd Ammendment policies that oppress all our rights instead of creating policies that deal directly with the problems/problem people. When gun stores/ranges don't have the grit to deal with the problems correctly how will we ever expect non-gun professionals to do deal with these issues properly? The gun store/ranges should set a policy that is a precedent and formula to be emulated by others!
My .02 cents
Last edited by MTGun; January 7th, 2007 at 10:18 PM.
January 7th, 2007 10:14 PM
If a gunstore wants to have a one size fits all, no guns policy, I can also adopt one that sends my money to other stores. I also won't have to only cruise Wal-Mart everytime my license is renewed.
Unfortunately, I have seen more than my fair share of fools, wannabes, and pretend commandos in gunstores and those same idiots don't read the signs anyway. It takes an alert store staff and regulars to prevent stupidity.
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