To change the rules?

This is a discussion on To change the rules? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After reading the "have you been a victim" thread, I have become acutely aware of SA @ work. Bases covered: no gun, night work, regular ...

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Thread: To change the rules?

  1. #1
    Member Array hickatheart's Avatar
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    To change the rules?

    After reading the "have you been a victim" thread, I have become acutely aware of SA @ work. Bases covered: no gun, night work, regular shooting deaths/VERY risky end of town, isolated at times, fellow employee not close enough to help, pac-set & cell, cops would have a hard time finding me. I have never been accosted, but since the sheep/sheepdog change . . . .vulnerable am I.
    Company does not allow ccw (why and if so is it worth the risk of a dead employee). I will not ccw @ work against rules, as scriptual upbringing makes it clear that breaking rules is not the way to change them (with the rare exception).
    I'm more aware of what's out there, and am getting a bit on edge. Anybody been in this spot and what did you do?
    Thanks for any wisdom!
    H@H

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  3. #2
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    Array Tangle's Avatar
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    No doubt that's a tough spot. Some times we have to choose the lesser of two evils. In this case, risk of being killed vs carrying against company policy. On the on hand if you get "caught" you may be dead, OTOH, if you get caught, you may get fired.

    I guess a lot depends on which is more likely to happen first.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    Find another job.

    Don't mean to sound pushy, but unless they're way overpaying you (for night work in a bad part of town) the simplest and most efficient way of keeping yourself safe is to find an employer who doesn't have a problem with you protecting yourself.

    Same reasoning that I have given friends who live in Illinois. Want to exercise your second amendment rights? Move.
    Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.

  5. #4
    Member Array crankinNM's Avatar
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    Desk or tool box?

    I've found that wearing my fanny pack draws vertually no attention. Fanny pack goes in tool box while at work, back on, on my way out the door.

    14 rounds of JHP does make one more confortable in the bad parts of town.

  6. #5
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    Array Thumper's Avatar
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    I agree with you on the moral issue.

    My employer is the same with regard to prohibiting guns. The only problem with getting another job is, I've been there 32 years and the pay is awesome!

    So… I park my truck off company property and have a Center of Mass Gun Safe in my truck. Oh well!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  7. #6
    Member Array M1911's Avatar
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    I'm more aware of what's out there, and am getting a bit on edge. Anybody been in this spot and what did you do?
    Yes. Pray.

  8. #7
    Member Array uenoparker's Avatar
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    Hickatheart,

    While I admire your adherence to the teachings of your faith, I'd encourage you to consider 'stretching the box' around your interpretation of scripture just a bit. Please consider this example -http://www.jpfo.org/athens.htm - of some folks who finally recognized that the rules were really there to hurt rather than help them.

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Maybe because I'm self-employed I have a luxury some others don't.

    But I see no moral issue at all with carrying a weapon in violation of company policy. None. I just need to be prepared to be fired if it ever gets discovered.

    I've quite intentionally and knowingly carried on the properties of clients that had no-gun policies. I don't give a damn about they're friggin' policies. If they find out, which they shouldn't unless the SHTF, they can refuse to do further business with me. Fine and dandy. I'll be alive and they'll be fools- dead or living, as the case may be.

    I don't owe ANY paycheck my life.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    I start a new job in 2 days. So far, I have not seen anything regarding CCW at work, and I don't intend to ask. My Glock 26 will be in my right front pocket, in a Nemesis pocket holster. What they don't know won't hurt me. And if I ever have to use it, it will be because my life was in danger, so it won't matter. If I lose the job, at least I'll be alive to look for another.

  11. #10
    Member Array hickatheart's Avatar
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    I really like this job, railroading is entirely rewarding. Lotsa fun, good exercise (mental & physical) and pay better than comes from the professional degree! No plans of leaving. I think talking with the boss might be a plan, whilst others have discouraged me there. Ya, many laws made in the wrong spirit, turn out to be rather harmful. But stepping out from under that law, leaves one open.

    Either way, any ideas why a CO may ban guns? I'm thinking insurance reasons and the like.
    Roger that M1911.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    It all depends on are you working for a Corp or a single owner. If a Corp, I would not say anything because it most likely will have no affect, however if a single owner or family, depending on how I read them, I might ask for a meeting where I could express my concerns about my saftey and assure them that you have experience a CC and are not a wacko. Just may end up going your way when they put themselves in your shoes. I don't encourage breaking the rules and neither should anybody else!!
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  13. #12
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    Breaking rules is not cool, but personal safety is necessary. I have a family to support , as many here do. I look at my personal risk and weight the consequences.
    As said, big corp will not bend, small companies might. Weigh your options and do what you feel is best for you and yours.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    My guess - economics

    Quote Originally Posted by hickatheart View Post
    Either way, any ideas why a company may ban guns? I'm thinking insurance reasons and the like.
    My guess is economics. If an employee is shot and killed on the job by a criminal, the company will hire another employee to replace him. Any compensation to the employee, such as life insurance, is paid by a third party based on premiums already spent. So there isn't much cost to the company from losing an employee to murder.

    If, on the other hand, the company approves an employee carrying on the job, and the employee shoots somebody, the company may be named in a civil suit (because company pockets are deeper than employee pockets) by the person who was shot, or their family. The amounts could be quite large - in the millions - and a jury could easily find for the one who was shot. Even if the one shot is a criminal, the jury might sympathize and order a large payment by the company.

    So the best economic decision by the company is to "ban" carrying of guns by employees while on the job. Murdered employees cost the firm a lot less than million dollar lawsuits. It's nothing personal, you understand.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    When you look at al the angles and yous till can't figure out the "why?", you can in almost every case blame it all on money. I think Pogo hit the nail on the head...
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  16. #15
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    Here is an article why we should oppose guns at work !!!!!NOT!!!!!

    http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?...01111645823957

    Nothing like creating a ready pool of victims. The easier it is to victimize someone, the more that those capable to carry should have a weapon.

    Makes my head hurt and my gut ache to think about those poor folks that couldn't defend themselves.
    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

    "The trouble is with the increasingly widespread problem of idiots prancing around out there confusing their opinions with actual facts." peckman28

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