Self defense insurance

This is a discussion on Self defense insurance within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Any comments on NRA's self defense insurance? I did a search and did not find anything. Any other organizations offer a better policy? Stuart...

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Thread: Self defense insurance

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    Member Array Stuart's Avatar
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    Self defense insurance

    Any comments on NRA's self defense insurance? I did a search and did not find anything. Any other organizations offer a better policy?

    Stuart

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    I think that to obtain insurance to cover self defense is to make a tacit admission that defending yourself is wrong, and something for which you (or the insurance company as your proxy) should have to compensate someone.

    What would it pay for? Would it pay the person who was attacking you, from whom you defended yourself? That's patently absurd.

    I'd have to be told what the purpose of it is intended to be before really judging the concept, but at this point it sounds like something we should not admit to needing. After all, self defense is self-justifying.

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    Member Array Smooth23's Avatar
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    If I had to guess, the gigantic sums of money needed for a lawyer..

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    With This Line Of Thinking...

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    I think that to obtain insurance to cover self defense is to make a tacit admission that defending yourself is wrong, and something for which you (or the insurance company as your proxy) should have to compensate someone.

    What would it pay for? Would it pay the person who was attacking you, from whom you defended yourself? That's patently absurd.

    I'd have to be told what the purpose of it is intended to be before really judging the concept, but at this point it sounds like something we should not admit to needing. After all, self defense is self-justifying.
    Wouldn't you also making the same admission by having a gun?
    Having insurance is not a bad idea...if you survive an 'encounter', I hope you can also survive the attorney 'costs', if you need one...

    And yes, as long as you were not directly in the act of commiting a crime...it pays for all costs...up to the amount of the policy!

    Most insurance companies offer such a thing, Peaceful..., check with your own company for details...

    I'm not throwing 'spears' here, just presenting another possible point for consideration.

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    Our Auxiliary PD group had a speaker (salesman) in offering prepaid legal aid. I thought it was going to be for this but turned out to be monthly pricy payments for all kinds of legal aid - not just for this.

    I'd be interested in affordable prepaid self defense ins myself.
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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    NRA endorses several kinds of policies. Links to pages with details are located at

    http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/index.asp

    I think this thread is referring either to the "excess personal liability" [EPL] or to the "self defense" [SD] coverage.

    EPL pays for accidental damage or injury caused by the policy holder for which he or she is liable.

    If the SD policy holder shoots someone in a self-defense scenario, is prosecuted, and is acquitted or charges dropped, this policy reimburses the legal fees incurred.

    I have a colleague who purchased both; SD coverrage is particularly important to him. I looked at it myself and so far have not been interested.

    I don't think the underlying morality of self defense is called into question by selecting this type of insurance. Like any other risk versus risk situation, each person rationally weighs the risk versus benefit either way and makes a choice.
    Last edited by Anubis; January 14th, 2007 at 09:17 AM. Reason: focus

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    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    This is $254 a year, which is almost the same amount I pay for full coverage insurance on my scooter. The chances of me needing to use my Kimber in self defense is minuscule compared to a accident in my bike. If I have to use my Kimber then what are the chances the bad guys estate is going to come after me.

    I can not see the cost of this insurance being worth it!
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    Member Array Stuart's Avatar
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    Anubis is correct, I was looking at the NRA Self Defense insurance which includes the Excess Personal Liability insurance. I do not believe you can get the SD without the EPL. You can get the EPL without the SD insurance. I was looking at the more expensive policy ($254.00) which has a coverage limit of $250,000 ($100,000 limit for legal fees.) I do not believe I could put a lawyer on retainer for $254.00. Insurance is a personal choice, not an admission of guilt. I have a homeowners policy, but that does not mean I am an arsonist.

    When I took my CCW course, we were told to expect a court case and that costs typically run between $50,000 to $100,000. They said it was better to be alive with the cost of a good lawyer than dead. The course run by my local Sheriff's dept was very good. They encouraged everyone in the county to get their CCW and they want people to carry 24/7. In their informal survey over the years, less than 20% of students will carry on a regular basis. But the course also emphasized the downside of CCW and your responsibility, i.e. that stray bullet that hits an innocent bystander. I hope the day never comes that I need to use this policy, but if I do, then I will be able to get a good personal defense lawyer rather than a court appointed lawyer.

    I will check with my homeowners policy to see if they offer such a rider. Truthfully, I did not think they would. Is there any other source I should check? From the above posts, I am getting the impression that this type of insurance is something new.

    Thanks for the different opinions. I wanted to hear both sides of the argument.

    Stuart

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    Guess you guys haven't been around lawyers much. Having the insurance admits nothing. I have car insurance, doesn't mean I plan on having a wreck. I have professional liability insurance, it doesn't mean I plan on violating the laws & policies of the organization. It means that I am financially responsible and desire to protect my assets and the assets of my family. A lawyer can also take the fact that you have the insurance to make you out as a responsible, thoughtful citizen who has looked at all options and planned accordingly. $250.00 and change is a small annual price to pay, when I have a lot to lose at this stage in my life. A good way to calculate if you need insurance is to spread the cost over the protected assets. In this case everything you have, as the insurance is to pay for a lawyer to defend you and your assets. If you have $2,500 dollars worth of assets, it isn't a good deal, on the other hand, lots of assets, it is pennies on the dollar to insure. And remember, there is a reason that lawyers go after the big Corp. Deep Pockets. And the deeper your pockets the more likely someone wants a piece of what you have. I have the insurance, because for every good lawyer there is some crook waiting for an opportunity to sue someone that has money so he can keep his 66% in fees if he wins. If you have no assets, have access to assistance to get a lawyer, and are young with a lot of time to recover financially from any hit you may take, then it more than likely isn't a good deal. I, on the other hand , don't plan on working for the remainder of the 30 or so years I have left on this Earth and have way too much to lose.

    I guess you can surmise that I have the insurance
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    quoting peacefuljeffrey:I think that to obtain insurance to cover self defense is to make a tacit admission that defending yourself is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Wouldn't you also making the same admission by having a gun?
    absolutely not!!!!! just because I have a gun doesn't make me in the wrong
    this sounds the same line of thinking since I had my weapon on me when the store was robbed that I had some part in making the BG rob the place; the sheep and antis try to use this logic all the time
    I don't see how this has anything to do with defending yourself being wrong. Just like above posts.....I have car insurance but that doesn't mean I'm admitting fault when I'm in a car accident, but I guarantee and anti-2A lawyer would use this line in court against you (right or wrong); I don't plan on getting this type of insurance myself but to each their own.
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    Member Array whitestone's Avatar
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    The NRA Self Defense insurance has benefits but may not be enough coverage. The $50,000 criminal defense reimbursement limit seems a little light. That is not going to be enough to get one through a fiercely contested criminal trial. It should be enough to get charges dropped in a clear-cut case of SD. But keep in mind you have to come out of your pocket with the money first. I guess you can always try and get excess coverage elsewhere.

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    Before you jump into that insurance plan. Take a moment to visit with your current home owners insurance agent and check on a million dollar umbrella policy for use during any and all litigations. Many times these policies (carried by alot of agents and officers) will be more financialy feasable. Just a thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig View Post
    Before you jump into that insurance plan. Take a moment to visit with your current home owners insurance agent and check on a million dollar umbrella policy for use during any and all litigations. Many times these policies (carried by alot of agents and officers) will be more financially feasible. Just a thought.
    Do you have more information on this umbrella policy? I will ask my agent but not sure how to imply insurance needs. Do I explain my intentions for this policy? I think the NRA insurance is quite pricey for the off chance I might need it. I have read many good and bad SD stories where the police backed up the shooter and case(self defense) never went to court. I Want to be protected but I am not interested in unnecessary expenses. The amount they want for the very very small chance that I would actually have to draw pull the trigger and then go to court because this shooting was in question seems steep and unreasonable. My renters insurance is half that and seems many more times likely to be used.
    Last edited by Bando; January 15th, 2007 at 03:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bando View Post
    I will ask my agent but not sure how to imply insurance needs. Do I explain my intentions for this policy?
    I would come right out and tell them this is what I am thinking about it for. If your insurance agent is worth their salt they will be able to tell you how the coverage will work and what is the best way to protect yourself. A good insurance agent that has been around for a while will have had this question posed to them before. In a case where your insurance agent is a then they will help you just out of not wanting to lose your business.

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    If the SD policy holder shoots someone in a self-defense scenario, is prosecuted, and is acquitted or charges dropped, this policy reimburses the legal fees incurred.

    Okay, I guess I understand a little more about it (though I haven't gone to the links as yet). I was imagining it was a policy to cover what you'd have to pay some scumbag or his family if you hurt him while defending against him.

    But if what is written above is true, and the policy reimburses, my understanding of "reimburses" is that I'd have to lay out the costs and they'd pay me back. That's not the same as "covering the costs," is it? Doesn't sound like it to me. I guess one would have to read the policy. (R.T.F.P. - heh.)


    I don't think the underlying morality of self defense is called into question by selecting this type of insurance. Like any other risk versus risk situation, each person rationally weighs the risk versus benefit either way and makes a choice.
    Well, I think I was wrong in my understanding of the point of the policy. Now I understand that it would be to handle the costs that may or may not come with proving you did nothing criminal when you defended yourself. For that, it might just make sense to have.

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