Mall security guards don't care about CCW rights...I need your help
This is a discussion on Mall security guards don't care about CCW rights...I need your help within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey there,
This is my first post. I guess it is the first thing that has mattered to me enough to share it will you ...
January 20th, 2007 11:11 PM
Mall security guards don't care about CCW rights...I need your help
This is my first post. I guess it is the first thing that has mattered to me enough to share it will you all. I am 23 from NC and have had my permit for about a year. This is the first time I have had to deal with someone trying to defend/protect our rights as CCWs. I just noticed that our mall has decals on the glass doors. These signs are a joke. Half of the decals are peeled off and they are printed in a really dark gray color. This was a big concern for me because I have carrried in this mall once before and felt bad now that I know I did something wrong. I went to the customer service and was told to talk to the head of security. I suggested that the signs are not visible and are in poor shape. He told me that they have had other complaints about this and have some plaques on order to place at every entrance to the mall that clearly say no weapons. Then an actual cop walked up and said "Every public place will start have having no weapons signs"...another topic. I go went back to the mall (three weeks later) with some friends. We checked two entrances and they have still not put the plaques up. I spoke with the same security and blew me off. I asked him when they were getting the plaques and if they would be easily visible. He basically called me a liar saying that he never said he had ordered plaques. He said he had just ORDERED THE SAME DARK GRAY DECALS THAT ARE PEELING OFF to replace the existing ones. He then turned his back on me and started to talk to some customers about their kids. I am still waiting there to finish our conversation. He then just blows me off and walks away saying that the decals are coming. My mom and I were talking about what happened and she asked "Why do you care so much about the signs?" I told her it is not about me since I now know what the mall's rules are. It is about all of the other CCWs that may have not seen the hidden signs and the consequences they would have to pay all because the mall didn't wan't to print the same signs in BRIGHT RED or print out the statue page that everyone knows to look for.
Here is were I hope you guys and gals can help me. What can I do to bring this to the attention to someone that cares? I know I will not spend a dime in mall and I know that security does not care about busting someone for carrying.
Sorry if this sounds a little heated.
Thanks you all and be safe.
January 20th, 2007 11:44 PM
I suggest you learn what your state laws are and quit listening to BS.
January 21st, 2007 12:20 AM
+1 to what One Eyed Fat Man said. Sounds like really good advice to me.
January 21st, 2007 12:40 AM
In NC, the signage must be conspicuous. What counts as being conspicuous is a subjective matter at best.
I would say that if it isn't immediately noticeable then you are within your own rights. However, now you know that it (the mall) is posted, it is up to you to make the decision as to whether or not you will carry there or even shop there. Also, telling like minded friends and relatives may just get them thinking as well.
My guess is that this is a CBL mall, and trust me, the corporate office could care less. I have been down that road. Not worth the effort.
January 21st, 2007 02:46 AM
A mall I visited when I lived in another state decided to post. A large group of people decided to send letters to all of the stores we visited in the mall regularly explaining that we were sorry, but we were no longer welcome in their mall and we would have to take our business someplace else. After they received letters from many, many people things seemed to change. Eventually, the mall removed the signs. The mall doesn't care if you visit, but the stores just might.
On another front, it is questionable whether a mall is able to post. Some view it as the new public square, meaning the mall itself is public, and not able to be regulated in such a way. In this event, individual stores could post, but the mall itself could not. Pay attention, because this could become a real issue in the near future.
"The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
- Lt. Col. Oliver North
January 21st, 2007 02:52 AM
I agree with Echo Four's suggestion to get the posting removed by influencing those that will hurt from lost revenue, the individual retailers, NOT the mall management.
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
January 21st, 2007 03:04 AM
I wouldn't expect much to come from this. Malls are privately owned establishments, and can therefore restrict or permit anything they desire, as can the retailers. The problem there is that the retailers may allow carry in their stores, but the mall in which they reside may not. Either way, depending upon you states laws, you could be in violation of the law and subject to the penalties of them.
Originally Posted by Echo_Four
The corporation itsself my be publicly traded on the stock market, but that doesn't constitute their properties as being public.
January 21st, 2007 03:59 AM
Do signs on the entrance of a store/mall carry the force of law, like the infamous "30.06" signs in Texas do?
If they do, write to the mall's management (and any stores you also feel like writing to) and tell them that because of their nonsensical, can't-do-a-thing-to-actually-stop-a-criminal policy, you will not spend any money at their stores.
If they don't, then just decide for yourself if you want to shop there knowing that if they knew that you were armed, they'd object.
In Florida, a posted sign is just a statement of policy, but if you get found to be carrying, the worst they can do is tell you to leave; if a cop is called and you still refuse to leave, then you can be arrested for trespassing.
I don't think that store signs should carry the force of law.
If they do not do so in NC, then I can't understand your fixation with the signs at the mall.
If the policy and the signs carry force of law, and they are not adequately displayed, and someone gets busted there for carrying, that will probably be his defense: they didn't provide adequate, clear notification of the policy.
January 21st, 2007 05:11 AM
Just carry 'very concealed' and if you're ever 'made', upon their request, leave.
If you don't, then they may have you arrested for trespassing.
Which, by the way, I think is highly unlikely, as I personally believe the 'decals' and 'signs' are only posted to make it seem like the management is being responsible, in the eyes of the average consumer.
Just my $.02...
Always remember: 3 can keep a secret, if 2 are dead!
January 21st, 2007 07:37 AM
I don't know N.C. law, but in some states the signs carry force of law and it is a crime to be discovered carrying concealed in a posted business. I live on the KS/MO border and Kansas is one of those states where carrying in a posted business is a crime.
Originally Posted by Amnesia Wes
Back to the OP. Let the tenants of the mall know that you will not shop there. Let them know that you are letting everyone know that they shouldn't shop there either. If you have a good grassroots CCW group in the state get them involved as well. I know when I lived in VA we were successful in getting several malls to remove signs.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
January 21st, 2007 07:51 AM
Thanks for posting. Now that you have "preached to a chior" that you want to "DO SOMETHING", go to your local Unit of Gvt. and see what offices will be up for election in two years. Get the application and see how many signatures you will need. Over two years see if you can sign up total strangers to your line of logic. They must be adult registered voters in your district. After listening to your short spiel if they are willing to sign thier good name in agreement with you , and want you as thier candidate for change, you make sense. On the other hand if you cant convince your mom with your logic , I would work on a better way to comminicate your argument. I would like to encourage everyone to participate in presenting a clear concise message to promote equal protection for all citizens, and a safe environment for all residents. ( The "I WANNA CARRY A GUN EVERYWHERE" argument is a bit weak on its own.)
I am an American. I vote. I will serve on a jury when called. Its a MEMBERS ONLY thing.
January 21st, 2007 08:31 AM
A store's signage that's posted in an "entrapment" mode (ie, hidden, small, easy to miss) combined with a haul-you-to-jail mentality will get them sued out of existence, if ever it were to occur. The most you can do as a customer is to be aware and then do what's right based on that; you're not required to first read the full litany of rules & regs prior to being a customer. Likewise, the most a shop can do is to place correct and obvious signage in the hope the customers will see it; they cannot hogtie you in situations where the sign was not seen ... not if they want to remain financially viable (from being sued out of existence) and avoid a stiff-arm from local law enforcement, assuming your concealed carry laws support sane and rational backing of carriers in such situations.
One route: avoid that entire mall; publicize their position if you're able.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 21st, 2007 10:27 AM
There are a lot of dedicated, experienced and compasionate men and women that work in private security. They should be commended.
That being said, you are wasting your time talking with an idiot. I'd suggest you speak directly to the mall manager, or, at the very least, the person in charge of mall security. Most malls have contracted with a private security firm.
The fool you are speaking with is, IMO, not a decision-maker. Speak with someone that is.
January 21st, 2007 11:14 AM
Know your state's laws.
If your state gives any weight to signage, but has specific requirements for the type of signage required, and you see a sign which does not meet the standard:
Don't help them fix the signage to actually prohibit lawful carry.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
January 21st, 2007 11:38 AM
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
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