Protecting others? would you or not? - Page 2

Protecting others? would you or not?

This is a discussion on Protecting others? would you or not? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've had this thougth and discussed with friends. Keep this in mind. In my town a local LEO was on duty driving down the street ...

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Thread: Protecting others? would you or not?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array kylebce's Avatar
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    I've had this thougth and discussed with friends. Keep this in mind.

    In my town a local LEO was on duty driving down the street and saw a guy stabbing a woman in the chest, blood was everywhere. He turned on his lights raced into the parking lot, and jumped from his vehicle. Then he shot the BG a couple of times and called the medics. He stayed with the woman and did what he could to help her as a first responder. She lived and was OK. All in a days work right?

    She was the guys wife and with her inlaws- filed suit against the officer and the police department. Everybody was wanting a cut of this civil suit, and lawyers were talking settlements and media and public perception. It was a ugly situation all for helping this woman who had been stabbed like 20 times and bleeding to death.

    You never know until you're there, but this local story makes me think. As an individual citizen who doesn't have paid administrative leave and a legal department- What is it worth to help somebody?

    In most cases, I think I would start with my cell phone- alerting authorities and keeping eyes on the situation. If there were children involved, or alot of innocents who were going to be hurt, that would probably make me act more directly.


  2. #17
    Ron
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    Like Chris, I'm also going to be boring again. Before you intervene you better be darn sure of the facts. Please remember that if you make a mistake and you shoot the wrong person, or the shooting is deemed not justified, the consequences for you and your family can be disastrous. You can wind up in prison with your family ruiined financially from the resulting civil law suit for damages that is sure to follow. As callous as this sounds, we are not a LEO, and IMO our primary purpose and responsibility of getting a CWL and carrying a handgun must be to protect ourselves and our family.

    Ron

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    The short answer is: there is no short answer. The best I can say is yes, I'll defend someone else if the circumstances are clear and I can do so effectively. As we used to say when I was in Uncle's employ, "depends on the situation and terrain."

    I do not hold with the "I'm only going to take care of me and mine" approach. It doesn't sit square with my own sense of ethics.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    The short answer is: there is no short answer. The best I can say is yes, I'll defend someone else if the circumstances are clear and I can do so effectively. As we used to say when I was in Uncle's employ, "depends on the situation and terrain."

    I do not hold with the "I'm only going to take care of me and mine" approach. It doesn't sit square with my own sense of ethics.
    Absolutely. Family first and foremost but in other situations I need to be able to look at myself in the mirror when I shave each morning.
    Jack

  5. #20
    Member Array Elder51's Avatar
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    Tough One....

    Standard carry for most of us here is prob. Firearm, flashlight, spare mag/speedloader, blade of some sort, & CEL PHONE...

    definitely try to use it first (gives u time to take your own pulse , gets the cavalry inbound , and gives u a chance to explain to dispatch you're there with a CCW and not a BG ).

    Then you've gotta play it by ear.... overload of options as have been stated and only a decision YOU can make.

    For me.... I'm gonna size it up and if it reasonably appears to be a BG.... I'm going in (but it's a choice I made a long time ago when I made my career choice, and I've never had reason to regret that choice)
    Condition "yellow" is a heightened state of awareness & response.
    It is not paranoia...
    "IT IS YOUR ONLY ROUTE TO SURVIVAL"

    An armed & knowledgeble Citizen has significantly increased their chances of continued Freedom & Safety... SO ALSO IMPROVED IS THE FUTURE OF THEIR NEIGHBORS

  6. #21
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
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    just wanted to clarify my thinking on this after reading some of the posts. I know the only time you should even consider acting is when you know for sure what is going on. Basically it goes down right in front of you.

    One thing I do know, I've gone through too much financial struggle to lose all I have for someone else if I can help avoiding it. I don't expect anyone else to protect me, and I don't count on them trying to either. Too bad lawyers have to make people fear protecting people. I guess it'll just be someone else's losss, not mine.

    Afterall, you see people writing to newspapers giving their opinions. They say, you think having a concealed weapon makes you some cop or something. You think you're going to stop crime, protect everyone. Be some vigilante. They say they wish they knew who we were so they could stay clear the hell away from us. Even though we are good guys. So with them thinking like that, I figure oh well.. I"ll worry about myself when it comes down to it. Last thing I need to try and do is save someone, who doesn't want to save theirself. Or who would probably try to sue me, or testify against me because they are against concealed carry or guns.

  7. #22
    Member Array ebk637's Avatar
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    as others have said it's me and mine first!
    if theirs a way out im taking it.
    I would have to believe that their would be some hot shot prosecuter(?)just wanting to tear you up.Remember its supposed to be for PERSONAL defense.
    there is way too much grey area IMO.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylebce View Post
    I've had this thougth and discussed with friends. Keep this in mind.

    In my town a local LEO was on duty driving down the street and saw a guy stabbing a woman in the chest, blood was everywhere. He turned on his lights raced into the parking lot, and jumped from his vehicle. Then he shot the BG a couple of times and called the medics. He stayed with the woman and did what he could to help her as a first responder. She lived and was OK. All in a days work right?

    She was the guys wife and with her inlaws- filed suit against the officer and the police department. Everybody was wanting a cut of this civil suit, and lawyers were talking settlements and media and public perception. It was a ugly situation all for helping this woman who had been stabbed like 20 times and bleeding to death.

    You never know until you're there, but this local story makes me think. As an individual citizen who doesn't have paid administrative leave and a legal department- What is it worth to help somebody?

    In most cases, I think I would start with my cell phone- alerting authorities and keeping eyes on the situation. If there were children involved, or alot of innocents who were going to be hurt, that would probably make me act more directly.
    I have to say I couldnt just stand by and watch a girl get stabbed to death. I'd do everything I could and use the deadly force last resort. In Ky I do have the right to defend others and if justifiable cannot be sued. Just have to remember what state you are in.
    If I did nothing and the girl died , thats something else I'd have to live with for not "getting involved"....

  9. #24
    Member Array ebk637's Avatar
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    good example robere.
    im not exactly sure what the law states here in michigan but im gonna try to dig it up.
    although i'll probably need a lawyer to explain it in english! LoL

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
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    Bottom line is I don't go looking for trouble but if trouble finds me then I will deal with it.
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  11. #26
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    Free men and women put up a fight because they are free men and women. If we let our decision to fight or not be based on the criminal, lawyers, or consequences then we are no longer free. I would fight for my wallet even if it were empty. I hope and pray that I would do the right thing if someone needed help because it is the right thing, regardless of the consequences.

  12. #27
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    It would have to be clear cut for me to help someone else. Example: A maniac walking in a store and shooting at anyone in his sight.
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything
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  13. #28
    Ron
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    [QUOTE=jednp;288428] Too bad lawyers have to make people fear protecting people.
    QUOTE]

    Don't blame the lawyers. In most cases it's the law that allows the law suit to be brought. Should you, or a family member, ever find yourselves in serious trouble, which I hope never happens, you will be very glad that there is a lawyer there to help protect your rights.

    Ron

  14. #29
    Ron
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    I don't think that any of us are suggesting that we would, for example, stand by and watch a child be beaten to death, or a woman gang raped. What, I think, is being suggested, and quite appropriately, is that we have to act with great caution because of the onerous consequences that will flow if we make a mistake.

    Ron

  15. #30
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Ron;288581]
    Quote Originally Posted by jednp View Post
    Too bad lawyers have to make people fear protecting people.
    QUOTE]

    Don't blame the lawyers. In most cases it's the law that allows the law suit to be brought. Should you, or a family member, ever find yourselves in serious trouble, which I hope never happens, you will be very glad that there is a lawyer there to help protect your rights.

    Ron

    I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand... lawyers usually have their noses in the laws. Like in Nebraska, the Omaha city prosecutor pretty much wrote the current firearms laws we have in Nebraska. Think he didn't have a role in making it so one can be sued in civil court if they are justified in shooting someone?

    Laws are there, and lawyers take advantage of them when they shouldn't.

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