Suggestions about requestiing permission to CC at work
This is a discussion on Suggestions about requestiing permission to CC at work within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My policy manual at work says "no weapons of any kind". I am well respected by the owners of my buusiness and have been a ...
January 16th, 2015 01:37 AM
Suggestions about requestiing permission to CC at work
My policy manual at work says "no weapons of any kind". I am well respected by the owners of my buusiness and have been a key leader in mid mgt for them 8yrs. They trust me to hire and fire without consulting, they trust me to makke business decisions involving thousands of dollars. It is a small company of bout 50 employees. Owners are red blooded Americans who hunt and fish, are down to earth.
Recently, after a LONG day of sitting in the board room for 7hrs of mind numbing financial discussions I asked two of the owners for a couple minutes in private before they left. I explained to them that my past profession had made me enemies of some bad people and that I have very close relatioships with many different levels of LE. That my son is a Correctional Officer at the State Pen and eals with many bad people ffrom the town we live in. As a result, I had obtained my CCW and was respectfully requesting their blessing to CC while working.
Much to my surprise, they didnt seem nearly as concerned about me wantiing to CC. However, they became VERY nervous that I feared enough for my life to want to CC while at work in our stores. They even implied that if I felt that threatened they were very concerned about the safety to my co-workers and customers because of the potential threats my associations with LE.
I TRIED to reassure them that this was just a personal choice to exercise my 2A right and that I felt no specific threats to myself. I asssured them that this was just my honest a respectful request and that I would honor whatever their decision would be but that I did NOT want it to affect my employment. I also acknowledged that I was not expecting a decision tonight and that I knew they would have look at it from a businness and legaliity stand point.
I advised them that the Century Code regarding this in North Dakota protects the employer from criminal or civil responsibility in the case that I need to use my weapon while on company property in a SD situation.
All in all, I feel the conversation ended with all parties a bit more scared and nervous than I had hoped for. Should have followed my gut and waited until a better time to discuss it with all 3 owners present and NOT affter sitting around a board table for 5 hours of mind numbing financial statistics discussions trying to find a way to increase profit margins.
Well, to finish, I think I have repaired and put them at ease about the possible "threat" I may be to my employees and customers and helped themm reccognized that I did a poor job of presenting the reasons I choose to CC at a poor time when brains were tired and numb.
Any suggestions how I should resume the conversation to get a positive outcome allowing me to CC with their blessing in the next week or so? They stated they would get to gether and disccuss it more and get back to me with a decision after they check into the laws and see what they would have to change in the policy manual.
If nothing else, they know me very well, that I am 100% honest with them about everything which was why I felt I should ask them rather than just disobey the manual hoping to never get caught (which I wouldnt have been caught)...
Ideas? Commments? "your a stupid idiot" remarks?
Let emm fly, I want to make a difference but I might need a little help from the wise members of this forum.
January 16th, 2015 01:39 AM
Unless this is a job you're not particularly attached to.
January 16th, 2015 01:44 AM
I think that I would let it go. They will probably get unspooked when they observe you are acting normally, doing a good job, and that nothing has changed.
I would expect at some point in time that they would bring up any points that concerned them, but right now, Id let it go with you having "planted some seeds" with them. Let the seeds germinate.
January 16th, 2015 01:46 AM
you can't un-ring a bell. The request has bbeen made and cat is out of the bag. Now I have to follow it through and accept their decision to allow or dis-allow. What do you think my best route will be to get their approval?
January 16th, 2015 01:49 AM
i kind of agree about letting the ice cubes melt. But, they will respect the request enough to make follow up discussion with me and reach a decision within 1 to 2 weeks. So, I need to prepare for that next discussion.
Originally Posted by StormRhydr
January 16th, 2015 01:50 AM
Now you know what Pandora felt like.
Before you broach the topic again I'd recommend you think through the conversation first. Maybe try and defuse the prior debacle by discussing the need for a thought out response to work place violence and emergencies in general such as a disgruntled ex employee, toxic chemical spills in the area, an active shooter, and other random acts of violence such as close by civil unrest that may happen at the work place. Maybe discuss a security team to take the lead in emergencies.
What ever you do, make sure it's the RIGHT time for the discussion.
Tiny steps to get back to zero.
North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
NRA Personal Protection and Basic Pistol Instructor
January 16th, 2015 02:01 AM
definitely. In the last 10 yrs the bank 100 yds away was robbed and the robber came through our mini mall to escape. The Holiday convenience store 100 yds away was also robbed. There is a well stocked pharmacy IN the mini mall we are in less than 50 yds from my store. Bakken Oilfield has increased violent crime and drug trafficking imensely which has spread eastward to our town. Police are taking guns off of heroin, meth and oxycodone addicts and dealers some as young as 14.
The store is SAFER with me in it because I can CC. Not more dangerous because of my past and present LE affiiations.
January 16th, 2015 02:08 AM
I agree with others about "laying low." Based upon what you wrote, I sense the owners were concerned about YOU and how that may affect them or other employees. Their reaction or fear could be about YOUR actions that they never even thought about until now. They may be thinking that even though you are a responsible person, how could your CC affect their business....especially if their customers or clientele happen to notice the not so CC.
I totally understand your desire. My concern is how they reacted. I believe suggesting a security team response action plan not be mentioned right now as that may lead to more uncertainty, fear and concerned about YOU. It is very difficult, if not impossible, to control what people may think.
The best advice about letting the seeds germainate is spot on. There should be no rush ..... time is on your side.
January 16th, 2015 02:15 AM
I agree and have assured them there is no reason to rush to any decision as well.
Originally Posted by CodeSection
January 16th, 2015 03:31 AM
Don't ask, don't tell.
At work? With a corporate mandate no weapons allowed? Unless you live in Oklahoma you have no recourse yet. Corporate and even private businesses insurance carriers are pretty adamant these days. One slip or incident in a gray area of coverage and they'll drop you in a heartbeat. No business wants that and they'll make no exceptions if they are wise.
Use your own scrutiny here. My employer has no right to tell me that I cannot carry to and from work. If I have to park on their property when I get to work what am I to do? I guess that means I can't work there huh? Or maybe they will insure my well being while I am driving to work or going home right? All the while infringing on my rights or telling me that a state issued CC permit is no good in their jurisdiction? Get real. Take it however you want, but I sleep well at night doing what I do and none of it involves my employer.
How much difference is there between terrorism and tyranny?
January 16th, 2015 04:30 AM
You made the unfortunate mistake, which you realize, of making it sound like there's an angry mob of homicidal maniacs out to get you. Now they think that either your mere presence in the business is a dangerous problem for everyone, or you're completely paranoid. Either way, let this die down, and give them a chance to relax their image of you as the Pied Piper of the Criminally Insane. Now is not a good time to press for whether or not you carry, because that will make them see a potential shootout, or a paranoid guy with a gun, in their future. Tread carefully. The other thing that they have to consider is that, if they let you carry, they will have to open that option up to everyone. That may not be an option they are comfortable with. If they bring it up, smile and agree, regardless of what they say. This question is asked fairly often - in the end, it boils down to how easily you can find another job.
January 16th, 2015 05:08 AM
That's the essential problem with letting the cat out of the bag, and why many people strongly advice that C.A.N.T. (carry always, never tell) can be in a person's best long-term interests.
Originally Posted by Jdschoolerjdsch
In this instance, you're getting a front-row seat on the sort of illogical connections some people make in their minds, once "gun" is heard. They imagine all sorts of falsehoods and fears coming true, whether any of those things have any basis in reality or not. And YOU are forever after branded the guy (in their minds) who's the potential threat. No way to put that cat back in the bag now, irrespective of you not wanting this to harm your employment with them.
One thing I've tried hard to show, calmly and simply, with my own family and friends who know I carry is that one venue is little different than any other, that my carrying always simply reflects the reality that criminals exist amongst us and can come walking by anytime, anywhere. It's not a matter of fear of such things. Rather, it's simply a recognition that reality exists, and that refusal to recognize reality is a poor substitute for survival value on the instant of something happening. Fact is, surprises are called that for a reason. Few would-be victims of armed robberies or other violent situations know beforehand such a situation is going to arise. And only those who are prepared to survive them have a high probability of getting through them intact. It's really that simple. And it's not about fear of things, certainly not about fearing a given venue's people or business.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 16th, 2015 06:05 AM
If there is in fact a written policy against it, it would be too great a risk to let one employee and not others. It is an invitation to the risk of litigation. As much as one would want to believe the follow up discussions completely laid their concerns to rest, once words are spoken, the original impact lingers long.......long..........long
January 16th, 2015 06:19 AM
The owners attorney, and their liability insurance company, may both be involved in helping make company policy.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
January 16th, 2015 09:49 AM
IMO unless you know that the owners are gunowners and pro 2a , i wouldn't even ask. The first thing that pops into a sheeples mind is why would he need that? will it bring violence to me, etc baah baah baah....