Killing a human is not a game.

This is a discussion on Killing a human is not a game. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Nate I served in the military. I'm not going to grab my AR-15 (like the M16A2 I used) or use the entry ...

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Thread: Killing a human is not a game.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    I served in the military. I'm not going to grab my AR-15 (like the M16A2 I used) or use the entry tactics and such from my service to shoot up innocent people. Then again, I was raised right, and have common sense. On the flip side, I use those tactics and weapons in the video games I play, to great effect. Would I ever use them on another person? Not unless my life was at stake.

    As mentioned previously, it's a underlying issue with society in general, and the unfortunate decline of proper child-rearing skills as a whole.

    While I understand where you're coming from in saying that video games had an influence, however nominal, that influence should have been overridden and resolved by common sense or a moral compass which just wasn't properly administered by their parents.

    Besides, there's more violence on the news and in movies than there are in video games. A lot of video games these days are based on movies and events in the news. I can see the whole "product of their environment" thing, but even then, at least one proper parent teaching the intangible skills necessary to get through life with discipline, intellect and honor would resolve most of those issues.

    Basically, parents need to raise their kids.

    THAT is the problem.
    Nate, my wife and I were having the same discussion tonight over dinner before even reading this thread.

    You hit the nail on the head. Right on.

    Mitch
    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

    "The trouble is with the increasingly widespread problem of idiots prancing around out there confusing their opinions with actual facts." peckman28

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samtechlan View Post
    I don't disagree with anything that has been said so far but is carrying a gun so much different than the responsibility that we all bear when we climb into our cars everyday? Our cars are potentially deadly weapons every second we are in them. Thousands of pounds of metal travelling at 65+ miles an hour in crowded highways and yet most people are very cavalier about driving. Judging from the way many, many people drive I'd say most gunowners are very much aware of the moral, ethical, legal and practical challenges of owning and carrying firearms.
    Now you've hit on one of my pet peeves. A drivers license is way to easy to get and most people are incredibly irresponsible drivers. They also kill and maim in far more numbers than any evil firearm!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  4. #63
    Senior Member Array my2cents's Avatar
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    The decision to defend myself or one of my family members will be mine and mine alone. I hope that reason will prevail in any hostile circumstance that presents itself. If I worry too much about the civil suite aspects of my action, I just might find myself taking a dirt nap for all of eternity. I was robbed at gunpoint many years ago before I started carrying. By the grace of God, I wasn't shot at the time. I can not honestly say how the situation would have been different had I been carrying at the time. Perhaps the only difference would have been that I would not have chosen a somewhat darkened establishment at night to buy gas - I don't know. I'd believe that I evaluate situations more favorably now. Thanks for all of the thought provoking knowledge and advice on this thread.
    Walk steathly - and carry a big Springfield.

  5. #64
    Senior Member Array aimhigh's Avatar
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    If you pull it out you must use it

    Dont show it don't talk about it but if you have to use it ,2 shoots take a look 2 more its first you and your family

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    The last thing I would want to do is have to shoot somebody. If there is any way to prevent this from happening I would try it first. Carrying a gun puts me at ease knowing I can defend myself. There are people out there who do not think the same way about takeing a life.

  7. #66
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nate
    I served in the military. I'm not going to grab my AR-15 (like the M16A2 I used) or use the entry tactics and such from my service to shoot up innocent people. Then again, I was raised right, and have common sense. On the flip side, I use those tactics and weapons in the video games I play, to great effect. Would I ever use them on another person? Not unless my life was at stake
    that pretty much says a lot if not all. i'm extremely passive and can't fathom hurting anyone for no reason at all. but when i was on convoys being shot at (OIF 1) i didn't hesitate to shoot back, i didn't have conflicting feelings, and i don't regret it now. i also don't think i'd have a problem throwing that "BG switch" again if it's going to make things right. i'm too realistic to let the aftermath of the death of a BG haunt me; being that the worst case. if you did all you could do to avoid the situation then what can you do.
    What's this button do?

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    The last thing I would want to do is have to shoot somebody. If there is any way to prevent this from happening I would try it first. Carrying a gun puts me at ease knowing I can defend myself. There are people out there who do not think the same way about takeing a life.
    The last thing I want to do is bleed out from multiple gunshots, or stab wounds, trying to hold my intestines in, wishing I'd been more tactically aware, or regretting my excess verbosity: "stepbackstepBACK!droptheknifeorIwillbeforced totakeappropriateaction!!"

    I can think of a dozen things worse than having to fatally shoot someone in self defense.

    --Travis--

  9. #68
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    Fact of the matter is that all creatures, from hamsters to birds to horses to humans, ALL will do anything to survive.

    Even our own bodies fight when they are threatened by infection and shock. Defending ourselves is not just our right, it is our nature.

    I have to shake my head when I hear people say things like, "I WOULD NEVER hurt another human being, not for ANY reason."

    It's simply untrue.

    We will run, fight, kick, scream, gouge, dodge, spit, bite, beat, fail, choke, ANYTHING to protect ourselves, if not those we love.

    It's not a question of whether we WOULD kill someone to defend ourselves, but a question of COULD we. We WILL fight to defend, but are be capable to do so?

    I guarantee you that the woman who is raped in her own home puts up as much of a fight as she is able. The man who is beaten to death by a group of kids with hoe handles (true case) probably fought like he'd never fought in his life, but it wasn't enough.

    We who carry just even the odds a bit (or a lot). The only difference between us and them is the fact that we KNOW we have the potential to kill, it's sitting on our hips, in our pockets, around our ankles, in our holsters.

    We have to deal with the fact that we can and will end a life to save our own.

    A person being attacked in a dark ally very well may get the better hand and beat their attacker to death, given the opportunity, he just didn't know he had that potential until the battle was over. Chances are he may have to deal with some survival's guilt because of it as well.

    We know we have that potential and it is a grave, serious and humbling responsibility; a responsibility that should NOT go over looked.

  10. #69
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    I have never been in a fire fight but I would imagine that not everyone has the ability to take someone's life.

    Once, when I was a youth, I seen a grown man with a baseball bat in his hand stand frozen in the face of an unarmed attacker just to eventually drop the bat and take a serious beating. I guess he was not prepared to make a decision to seriously hurt/kill the other man in defense of his life nor did he appear to have the common sense to run. He was not prepared for the situation and spent time in the hospital because of it.

    I think that all of us are born with a fight or flight response but some of us get the switch jammed between the two and do nothing. Some people convince themselves that a situation is not happening and others merely underestimate the situation. Then there are those that overestimate a situation. The only thing any of us can do is prepare for things mentally BEFORE they happen.

    I once wrestled a knife from a fellow who was threatening to stab his brother. I am not sure whether I could have taken his life had it turned ugly but I was young at the time. I had never prepared myself to make that decision. I now feel like I could relieve a man of his life if it is him or me.

    I think it all comes down to actually MAKING the decision that it is HIM or ME(or your family) in the face of danger. Anyone who would take a life without drawing to the correct answer of the HIM or ME decision should not be carrying a weapon nor should anyone who isn't prepared to make the HIM or ME decision. If you do not feel like you can do it, you should not carry a firearm until you can. Prepare yourselves because as William Munny said, "It's a crazy thing killin' a man. You take away everything he has and every thing he's ever gonna have." It's a big decision with only seconds to make it, so plan for it.
    Last edited by swedgin; March 3rd, 2007 at 03:32 AM.
    If he was gonna decorate his bar with my friend, he shoulda armed himself.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
    I don't understand how some people have to justify carrying a gun to themselves or talk themselves into it. That just makes no sense whatsoever.
    Value of life is a strong aspect of what makes us human. Maintaining a balance between a citizen's rights and responsible actions is a good thing. The basic use-of-force and self-defense laws are written with this in mind. If nothing else, that fine jury of twelve peers will hold you to those standards, as is appropriate. Further, any action that seeks to minimize damage may well still destroy (in all its forms). No way around that. Yet, that can come as a surprise to those who see every problem as a nail in need of a hammer.

    "Talk themselves into it"? Nah. It's more of coming to understand the full ramifications of the step, in advance of that step. IMO, it should be a deliberate and contemplative act, with a decision made after full reflection. But that's just me.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  12. #71
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    Growing up we didn't have any firearms in our home, it wasn't until I was in college there was a few things that shaped my perspective on self-defense. When I was thinking about getting a criminal justice degree. I had to decide if I could do what ever was necessary. The second was when my dad called and told me about one of the officers in our town getting killed. I know how serious of a responsibilty it is to carry, it isn't I don't take cavalier at all, but I don't fret about how awesome of a responsibility it is either.

    The most interesting thing I have found out about myself since I have been carrying is that I'm actually longer suffering of fools. Not that I was a punk before, maybe I'm just getting more mellow in my 'old age' I don't know. I guess sometimes it isn't necesarily a bad thing to reflect on what we believe, the way we live.
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton

  13. #72
    Member Array alto's Avatar
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    To carry is not a game. I don't feel like a 'tough guy' when I carry. I'm not a tough guy and never have been. I've always been a good guy, a gentle, fair, decent man. I practice and carry to give myself a chance to stop a POS from hurting me or my family. I am a human but I view a predator as inhuman. Although I've gone 58 years without harming or hurting anyone, and prefer to live out the rest of my life in my gentle manner, I would do my best to stop a life-threat to myself and family..The consequences may be terrible but to do nothing and watch my family harmed or killed would be far worse. I'd rather live in a jail than live with that torment.

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    ... prefer to live out the rest of my life in my gentle manner, I would do my best to stop a life-threat to myself and family..The consequences may be terrible but to do nothing and watch my family harmed or killed would be far worse. I'd rather live in a jail than live with that torment.
    That's about it. Well said.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #74
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    My Sidearm...

    It is another tool in life.

    I practice with it and enjoy its company...

    It comes with more than bullets and a handbook...

    It requires training, practice, common sense, and planning. Although I do feel safer with a weapon, it is no guarentee for ultimate safety...just makes the odds better in my favor.

    What I have found my sidearm providing for me is:
    ...a more profound respect of life
    ...a search for the best way to avoid trouble
    ...a more relaxed approach to difficulties in life
    ...more personal confidence which allows me to let rude and disrespectful individuals to have a wide path
    ...a reason to give rage-filled drivers 'both' lanes...if they want them
    ...a much more tolerant and polite attitude
    ...a reason to be observant and much more aware of the world around me

    Good thread...

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; March 3rd, 2007 at 11:22 PM.
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  16. #75
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Killing is not a game, it's true.

    Human nature is to avoid killing other humans. Often a person who fully intends to kill another hesitates. That's why in many stabbings the first several strikes are shallow. A person with a gun will usually hesitate even after they have decided to pull the trigger.

    Musashi actually writes about this in "A Book of Five Rings", and other authors have discussed it as well.

    The secret then, when one finds oneself in a dangerous situation is to consciously decide NOT to hesitate. If you are aware of the tendancy you can overcome it. The easiest way to do so, IMO, is to realize that once your opponant crosses a certain line... whatever that line is for you... he has forfeited his life. Your enemy is the one who kicked in your door, pulled a gun or knife on the street or otherwise initiated the violence.

    Killing is not a game, but TOO much hesitation, reluctance or remorse will get you killed... and as life is not a game there are no redos.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

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