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Your opinion of this - saying NOT to call 911

5K views 68 replies 53 participants last post by  katmandoo122 
#1 ·
Here's a guy, a private investigator, with some pretty hard nosed advice. I've always been told that the VERY first thing you should do in a self defense shooting is call 911. He advises leaving the scene immediately, calling your lawyer and letting HIM call 911. A lot of what he's saying is true, however, about how you can easily hang yourself by talking to the 911 operator or the police. What do you guys think?



Ruark
 
#3 ·
I have heard this before I believe it was form a Detroit cop he indicated you have no duty to report your self it's under the fifth and if and when they do find you, you just tell him you were afraid
 
#63 ·
In an armchair.
If in doubt, better to call 911.
My sig line speaks to the rest.
 
#5 ·
Ultimately, you'll be judged by a jurry of your peers, right?

I think most people would think poorly of someone who fled the scene of a shooting, unless they thought that the area they were in was contributing to their lack of safety.
I think most people would think you were cold blooded for not having the compassion needed to call 911 for a dying person.
I would also think it would be too tempting for a civil lawyer to make these same claims as the bad guy's family tries to sue me for defending myself.

I will call 911, I will do the best that I can to keep the conversation with the 911 opperator limited to facts about the condition and location of the wounded person(s). I will describe to the opperator what I look like and how the police may identify me when they arrive.
 
#6 ·
Every situation is going to be different! Not what you were told to do expect or trained for.
If involved in a SD shooting, after the gunfight, look around. Are you in more danger staying there? Then leave, call later.
If the area is safe, call 911. Keep an eye on the area. It may have been safe right afterwards, then turn dangerous.

Simplistic advise for simple events. Too bad real life is not simple.
 
#7 ·
I've stated this before and I'll state it again….nobody is obligated to call 911, however, common sense, I would believe, dictates if one calls 911, it raises the urgency of the matter. Walking away from a scene, calling a lawyer, who calls 911 does not indicate urgency.

Further, because you, as a shooter in a self defense shooting, calls 911 does not mean you have to admit to anything ABOUT the shooting.

In my area, the 911 dispatcher willl ask, "Police, fire, or ambulance." My response would be, "I need an ambulance and the sheriff's department. There has been a shooting at whatever address." The caller has not incriminated himself but merely given pertinent, urgent information needed for both police and medical personnel. Beyond telling the 911 this information, you DO NOT have to answer any question as to who and why this person became a shooting victim. In fact you can hang-up the telephone and not say another word…no violation of law.

The dispatcher will more than likely call back…there is no requirement to answer your telephone…things will be fairly hectic anyway, at least mentally and emotionally. Besides, not answering when the 911 dispatcher recalls will probably heighten the urgency…just sit back and wait.
 
#19 ·
I've stated this before and I'll state it again….nobody is obligated to call 911, however, common sense, I would believe, dictates if one calls 911, it raises the urgency of the matter. Walking away from a scene, calling a lawyer, who calls 911 does not indicate urgency.

Further, because you, as a shooter in a self defense shooting, calls 911 does not mean you have to admit to anything ABOUT the shooting.

In my area, the 911 dispatcher willl ask, "Police, fire, or ambulance." My response would be, "I need an ambulance and the sheriff's department. There has been a shooting at whatever address." The caller has not incriminated himself but merely given pertinent, urgent information needed for both police and medical personnel. Beyond telling the 911 this information, you DO NOT have to answer any question as to who and why this person became a shooting victim. In fact you can hang-up the telephone and not say another word…no violation of law.

...
I think even this is too much. Have someone ELSE call and say I need an ambulance and 'MAYBE' "We was/were/am in fear for my life", address and hang up and maybe go to a neighbor's house? If YOU get on the phone, trust me you will have to fight it not to BLAB. :)

Call your lawyer first.

Why tell 911 how to do their job. Ambulance crew can call them and say 'Send CSI' or something.
 
#8 ·
Sure leave the scene, LOL.

Back into another car, run over someone, not an issue. Leave the scene, call your lawyer, and let him call for you. Great advice.
 
#9 ·
BAD advice in my opinion. Being a private investigator does not mean he knows anything about anything, especially self-defense shootings. Mas Ayoob is an LEO, teaches classes on the legalities of self-defense shootings, and had been an expert witness in hundreds of cases, and he advises YOU to call 911, and to NOT leave the scene. I trust his credentials over some random private investigator.
 
#10 ·
I'd call 911 if the situation allowed it. I'll tell them theres a shooting send help. I'd clarify my location and hang up.
 
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#11 ·
The advice we got in the Self Defense Law class I took was that you should initiate a call to 911, but you don't have to make the call yourself. If there is a bystander, it may be better to ask them to call. If you have to call, just tell them someone has been shot, the location, your name and to send an ambulance. You don't have to ask them to send the police, that is assumed. Then hang up. They will tell you to stay on the phone, but you don't have to and it's not a good idea.

The class instructors advised you should only leave the scene consistent with your safety. If you are safe, stay where you are, monitor the scene. Don't touch anything. When the cops show up, it makes sense to ID yourself, give them the barest facts they are going to discover anyway, state you acted in self-defense, then take the fifth and shut up until your lawyer tells you to say something.

Here's what I think everyone should do: Get a good lawyer, in advance. You don't necessarily have to have them on retainer. Get their card, put it in your wallet, tell them you will call them if something like this happens. Ask them what you should do in the event something happens. If something happens, follow those instructions. Don't get legal advice from message boards or videos!!! No internet advisors will be helping you at the police station or in court.
 
#62 ·
^^^Very solid advice!^^^
Having spent some time in court as a Major Case Detective, I can assure you that not calling 911 immediately after a shooting WILL NOT help your case! Choose your words carefully when you do call and try to remain calm and focused. Also the firearms training you had (or didn't have) WILL come in to play! Ex: If they told you in training to call 911 and you didn't.... this is not going to help your case. Just this old Cops' take on this subject....
 
#13 ·
911 what is your emergency
A mans been shot at ......send the police and an ambulance. Click.
Wait for the police. Make sure your pistol is.holstered, if its not safe to have your pistol holstered then your probably too busy to be calling 911.
 
#14 ·
The man did have some logical advice. I am sure you could be your own worst enemy if you say too much to 911 or responders. Asking for your lawyer first delays you answering more questions. I hope I never have to experience this. If I do, please Lord help me keep my mouth shut.
 
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#15 ·
No. No. No.

I'll believe Massad Ayoob first: He who calls first gets to be the victim.

What do bad guys do when they shoot somebody? They don't call 911. If they got one, they may call the lawyer. They don't talk much if at all to police.

If you do that, you will have to dig yourself out of the 'bad guy' evaluation before you can get anywhere else with your story and your legal defense.

Keeping your mouth totally shut is in the same category of mistake in this kind of situation as not being able to keep it shut.
 
#21 ·
No. No. No.

I'll believe Massad Ayoob first: He who calls first gets to be the victim.

What do bad guys do when they shoot somebody? They don't call 911. If they got one, they may call the lawyer. They don't talk much if at all to police.

If you do that, you will have to dig yourself out of the 'bad guy' evaluation before you can get anywhere else with your story and your legal defense.

Keeping your mouth totally shut is in the same category of mistake in this kind of situation as not being able to keep it shut.
Bingo I agree completely, he who calls first gets to be the victim. It's just not so common sense but if you leave someone will paint you as a bad guy.
 
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#16 ·
I'm not sure I buy into this completely.

There is a grain of truth to what he says: resist the urge to blab everything immediately, and, when in doubt, shut up. And I suppose that, if the shooting happened to occur during business hours right outside my lawyer's office, I would indeed let him make the 911 call. But I don't think fleeing the scene and letting someone else make the 911 call is the best idea. Seems there was a case not long ago where a guy did this, the police had to go in search of him, and it didn't work out too well for him.
 
#17 ·
Lawyer told me that if involved in a shooting to call 911, report a shooting and request police and medics, give a description of yourself, and then hang up. He said 911 will call back but to ignore them. They are trained to ask questions you don't need to be answering without counsel present. He said then to immediately call him second and he will guide you through what to do/say and what not to do/say.

Makes sense to me.
 
#31 ·
+1 it was bad the first time. Cant imagine this time will be any different....
 
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#25 ·
Who ever said you have to answer questions if you are on the phone? You can shut your mouth.

For me, I am dialing 911 from the scene unless it is not safe to be there. I will give them the minimum amount of information necessary and then either hang up or just go quiet if I need to keep the line open for some reason.
 
#26 ·
#27 ·
Speaking just for myself, I have every intention of calling 911 to request ems/police assistance. As soon as I am safe enough to make the call, I will. That may be on the scene and it may be down the street but I will make the call. I am not saying that I am going to give lengthy statements or answer 300 questions.. I am simply saying that I plan to call for help and let them know who is injured and the nature of that injury.
 
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