February 15th, 2007 05:46 PM
Hey TN Folks
I hear there is some politician in Memphis that is trying to introduce some favorable bill for CCW and gun owners. Anyone heard what the brunt of it is? I heard a very brief blurp about it....something to the effect of wanting to give TN residents the right to defend themselves.
UUMMM do we not already have this right?????
February 15th, 2007 06:07 PM
Do you have any links?
I haven't heard of that one, I am aware however of some change on the State Parks law that is being written by Burchett from East TN.
February 15th, 2007 06:28 PM
Ok I did a little search and found that the story seems to have originated from a news story. Here is a copy of the transcript from the broadcast.
Should Deadly Force Be Allowed
02-14-2007 -- Nashville, TN
FOX 17 NEWS
WOULD YOU USE DEADLY FORCE TO STOP AN ARMED CAR-JACKER?
ONE STATE REPRESENTATIVE BELIEVES YOU SHOULD HAVE THAT RIGHT... AND ITS OPENING A NEW DEBATE AMONG GUN OWNERS.
REPRESENTATIVE ULYSSES JONES IS PROPOSING TWO SO CALLED "NO RETREAT" LAWS.
HE SAYS THE BILLS WON'T TURN TENNESSEE INTO THE WILD WILD WEST ... BUT WILL YOU A CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST CRIMINALS.
THE INDOOR RANGE AT GUN CITY IS WHERE GUN OWNERS COME TO SHARPEN THEIR AIM AND GET FIRE ARMS TRAINING ... SOMETHING JACK ALSTON BELIEVES IS ESSENTIAL.
TONIGHT STATE REPRESENTATIVE ULYSSES JONES WANTS TO EXPAND THE RIGHTS OF GUN OWNERS.
JONES IS PROPOSING LEGISLATION THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO USE DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT YOURSELF WHEN THREATENED BY A WOULD BE CAR-JACKER WITH A WEAPON.
A SEPARATE BILL WOULD LET BUSINESS OWNERS OR SECURITY GUARDS USE DEADLY FORCE IF THEY FEAR IMMINENT DEATH OR INJURY.
THE TWO BILLS BEING PROPOSED BY JONES ... ARE AMONG ELEVEN THAT WOULD EXTEND THE RIGHTS OF GUN OWNERS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES OUTSIDE THEIR HOMES.
JONES SAYS VIOLENT CRIME IN MEMPHIS AND OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE IS WHAT LED HIM TO INTRODUCE THESE BILLS.
February 15th, 2007 06:37 PM
I had not heard of this, it is an interesting proposal.
Apparently the increase in violent crimes in Tennessee is leading legislators to take some unprecedented actions. They have filed bills that would increase the rights of citizens to bear arms and use those arms with deadly force in certain situations. Like during a carjacking. One bill in particular would allow motorists to kill an attacker that they feel is threatening to "murder, rape, kidnap, rob or carjack the car's occupants." Filing the bill was Rep. Ulysses Jones and Sen. Reginald Tate, two Memphis Democrats. "I've heard a lot of support for this. It's time to give citizens the opportunity to protect themselves. Right now, we're at the mercy of what I call 'scum'," said Jones, a Memphis Fire Department paramedic.
The important shift here is that potential victims had only been allowed the right of defense inside their homes. Extending the right to outside the home, and particularly to a motorist in a vehicle, is a dramatic change. The NRA has helped push similar laws through in Florida, but Tennessee is believed to be the first effort to extend rights to motorists. These so-called "No Retreat" laws change the burden of attackees so that fleeing isn't the only option. Standing your ground and defending yourself and your property is allowed instead.
James Elmore is like many people. He's concerned about crime.
"You know, we're living in a time when crime is just rampant," says Elmore. "So, it could happen to anyone, anytime," he adds.
It happened to him. He was carjacked in his own driveway.
"When he came from behind the fence, he had the gun pointed at me," says Elmore.
Elmore says it might have been different if he had been armed.
"I'm a Vietnam veteran, ex-marine, and I'm not afraid to shoot," says Elmore.
Tennesseans may soon have the power to do just that, no questions asked.
A proposal filed Wednesday would allow people to kill a carjacker if they feel their life is on the line.
"In order to give regular citizens a level playing field," says State Rep. Ulysses Jones of Memphis.
Jones is behind the bill. He says his inspiration comes from what he's seen in Memphis. Too many people are at the mercy of criminals. He says it's time to turn the tables.
"I think the best way to do it is to use deadly force if you think your life is being threatened," says Jones.
Critics say the proposal is reminiscent of the Old West. James Elmore doesn't believe it gets to the root of the crime problem. But it may be better than nothing.
"You know, it's possible you could get hurt in that situation, but you could get hurt anyway," says Elmore.
He says he's willing to take the risk.
The bill filed by Representative Jones is just one of nearly a dozen bills aimed at extending self-defense laws. Opponents say current laws are solid enough.
According to Memphis police, there were 586 carjackings in 2006.
There have been 60 so far this year.
February 15th, 2007 06:51 PM
I have been under the impression that TN had adopted the castle doctrine, but after doing some searching it seems I can't find any form of any kind of castle doctrine. Is this true?
February 15th, 2007 07:53 PM
A politician with brains and guts. What do you know. Hope it goes thru. We already have the vehicle thing in OZ.
A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.
February 15th, 2007 07:56 PM
My understanding, which may be in error, is that Tennessee has had a form of the "castle doctrine" for a very long time. Essentially, if someone enters your home while you are there, they are presumed as a matter of Tennessee law to be proffering lethal force against you, and that you are justified in responding with the same. IANAL, but that was what I was told in class in 2002.
February 15th, 2007 08:30 PM
Here's a bit more information on the bills that have been submitted:
Bill would allow deadly force against carjackers
Lawmakers consider extending self-defense outside homes
By Richard Locker
February 14, 2007
NASHVILLE -- Spurred by violent crime in Memphis and elsewhere, Tennessee legislators have filed several bills to expand the legal rights of people to use deadly force when threatened by would-be attackers.
One would specifically allow people in motor vehicles to kill or "cause serious bodily injury" to attackers -- both inside or outside the vehicle -- who they believe are threatening to murder, rape, kidnap, rob or carjack the car's occupants.
That bill was filed Rep. Ulysses Jones and Sen. Reginald Tate, both Memphis Democrats. "I've heard a lot of support for this. It's time to give citizens the opportunity to protect themselves. Right now, we're at the mercy of what I call 'scum'," Jones, a Memphis Fire Department paramedic, said Tuesday.
Another bill by Jones and Sen. Dewayne Bunch, R-Cleveland, would extend the right of business owners or their security guards to use deadly force inside or immediately outside their businesses, against a person who "unlawfully and forcibly" enters or attempts to enter, if they have a "reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury" to themselves, employees or customers.
Those two proposals are among 11 bills filed through Tuesday that would extend rights of citizens to defend themselves outside of their homes. Current Tennessee law allows residents to use deadly force against someone who breaks into their homes while they're at home; there's a legal presumption that an intruder intends to cause occupants harm.
Shelby County Dist. Atty. Gen. William Gibbons, who was in the State Capitol Tuesday meeting with lawmakers on other matters, said he "conceptually supports" legislation such as Jones' anti-carjacking bill but couldn't comment on it specifically because he hadn't seen it.
Several of the newly filed bills would enact "no-retreat" laws, permitting the use of deadly force in self-defense against would-be malefactors that a citizen believes is threatening to attack them. The National Rifle Association has pushed similar laws in other states, and won approval of one in Florida in 2005 that says citizens have no duty to back down from an attacker before firing a weapon.
Jones said he filed his two bills because crime in Memphis and elsewhere leaves people feeling vulnerable. He said he hopes people will seek proper training before using the force the bills would -- if signed into law -- authorize.
Tennessee's gun-carry laws require people to undergo firearms training with certified instructors before being issued permits.
Other Memphis area lawmakers who have filed bills expanding the legal authority for self-defense with deadly force include Sens. Mark Norris, R-Collierville, Paul Stanley, R-Germantown, and Roy Herron, D-Dresden.
All of the bills are expected to undergo close scrutiny and face an uphill battle becoming law. No law can be enacted without approval of both the Senate and House of Representatives, and ultimately the governor.
-- Richard Locker: (615) 255-4923
Copyright 2007, commercialappeal.com - Memphis, TN. All Rights Reserved.
February 15th, 2007 09:07 PM
As with many laws there seems to be a lot of gray area and some confusing dialogue/ jargen coming from the news media
February 15th, 2007 10:42 PM
Go TN...join FL...
Stay armed...stay safe!
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February 15th, 2007 11:36 PM
this kinda makes me happy =O) would be a HUGE step for those of us living in TN. =O)
February 16th, 2007 10:00 AM
Great. Sounds like we are on the right track with this one. Any idea how we may show/give support here in Tennessee?
Last edited by INTJ; February 16th, 2007 at 10:02 AM.
"Beware of the man who only owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it."
February 16th, 2007 10:01 AM
Even bigger step would be to get where we can carry where alcohol is served for onsite consumption
hmmm i thought i already had the right to shoot a carjacker if im sitting in my car and he points a gun at me that he was fair game, not talking about shooting him after he's got my car but while im still seated etc etc
February 16th, 2007 11:47 AM
You can shoot if you are in immediate danger, fearing for your life. Car jacking doesn't always involve murderous threats, this new law would permit lethal force against robbery, that is the change.
Originally Posted by Daps
As regards carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, it is being worked on as we speak but it is unlikely to pass while Naifeh is on the hill as he does not approve. He is a gun guy contrary to popular belief but between his belief that alcohol and guns don't mix and the ABC lobby there is a slim chance here in TN that we will be able to sit in J.Alexanders with a carry gun.
Maybe one day but not yet.
February 16th, 2007 12:14 PM
I would think a gun to my head is a murderous threat but would be nice to have it spelled out in the law vs gray area. I know most of the time let them have the car and go
We're so close to getting that bill passed. At least we got so that we can now carry in places that sell alcohol to go like stop n robs.
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