February 26th, 2005 03:33 PM
Ive got a IBA with SAPI plates in my trunk at all times, guess Id be a fair match against a guy with an AK.
Originally Posted by Betty
February 27th, 2005 10:45 AM
KLTV.com Web Headlines Story
"The simple fact is we were just outgunned. This individual we have found was shot numerous times, but the bullet proof vest and the flack jacket caused him from going down. So the simple fact is we were outgunned. He had a semi-automatic weapon ,our officers didn't," says Smith County Sheriff J.B. Smith.
It's a risk they take every single day: law officers armed only with a side arm, usually a handgun or revolver, facing killers like David Arroyo.
"Officers that were in trial or had business in the court such as yesterday, they're not carrying a riffle, they're only carrying their firearm. And you can see by the size of the bullet, initially it was an unfair advantage for sure," says an agent at the Tyler Department of Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Clay Alexander.
It was an unfair advantage they had no way to prepare against. The Norinco MAK-90 Riffle, used in yesterday's shooting, was never under the assault weapons ban, that expired last fall. Even so, some say that ban should be re-enacted.
"There's no reason to have a gun. Guns were made to shoot people, so there's no reason he should have had a gun," says a Tyler resident.
"People who are mentally unstable or have problems have access to those guns now, and that affects innocent people," says Alie Abel, another Tyler resident.
Local lawmakers say even a ban on semi-and full automatic weapons, can't stop a criminal with a plan.
"I agree that there should be a ban on assault weapons, but I do not think that would have prevented this. I don't think they could have done any better of a job than they did. I mean this man had a flack jacket on, he came with a bullet proof vest to protect himself," says Senator Kevin Eltife.
Some residents in town say guns themselves are not the problem, it's the people who buy them.
"I think it's OK to have hand guns, but when it comes to things like assault riffles, things that are automatic like that, that's wrong," says Ali.
"I don't look at situations like this and say we shouldn't have guns. It's people like Mark that those gun laws are designed for. He's a perfect example of the legitimate, law abiding citizen, having a gun, doing the right thing, and having a concealed handgun license. He tried and probably did save a lot of lives by having a gun," says Smith County Assistant District Attorney, Brett Harrison.
"We just need to be thankful that we have law enforcement that we do, and that they responded as quickly as they did, and that someone like Mark Wilson put his life on the line to help others and to save lives. Those are the heroes in this story and God bless them," says Senator Eltife.
Again, the weapon used yesterday, the Norinco MAK-90 Riffle, is not considered an assault weapon.
Officials tell us, the deputy shot yesterday was not wearing body armor. But, they also point out, even if he had been, it wouldn't have protected him against a semi-automatic weapon like the MAK-90 riffle.
Reporting: Braid Sharp firstname.lastname@example.org
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
February 27th, 2005 10:48 AM
Great post Sir. On the portion I excised, was it not Mr Murphy who said prepare for the unthinkable & unimaginable, becuase you can bet your arse it will happen? This has made me rethink my training. I am going to practice more shooting on the move with exegency. I need to add that to my quiver of skills.
Originally Posted by Euclidean
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live!!!
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.
Henry Ward Beecher
February 27th, 2005 01:35 PM
What were the distances involved?
I read numbers of 50, and 75 YARDS!
2 and 1 drills are nice, when no one is shooting at you and distances are 10 yards or so.
How many of you can make the shot at 50 yards (with a 1911 handgun) while someone is shooting at you with an AK?
Last edited by KC135; February 27th, 2005 at 01:37 PM.
Keep the shotgun handy!!
February 27th, 2005 06:43 PM
Put a buttstock on it and I might have a chance...
Originally Posted by KC135
February 27th, 2005 10:31 PM
And now you know why I practice double taps and snap shooting at targets out to 150m with my carry Sigs. Can I tell you where on the body I'm going to hit? No, probably not. It won't save me against a dude in body armor at that distance 100%, but at least I can try. ;)
Originally Posted by KC135
I may not be the most accurate dude ever for groups when doing it, but I'll at least know I have the basics to take down a longer-range target with a pistol.
I haven't been shot at yet by a guy with an AK, though, and hope to avoid that unpleasantness as long as possible.
Assuming I can get some sort of a drop on the dude, I don't see a horrible problem. I can easily zap a head-sized object at 50m with a few seconds of preparation - the question, of course is whether I'll get that luxury.
February 28th, 2005 07:58 PM
50-75 yrd range is rifle work for combat. Better to drop em before he sees ya and sends rounds your way. Locally I don't carry a rifle in the truck but this may change.
February 28th, 2005 11:37 PM
Indeed a tragic ending to a valiant effort...Mr. Wilson deserves the honor of a fallen hero. RIP Mr. Wilson!!
Having said that and not diminishing his tragedy, I question the soundness of Mr. Wilsons tactics by not choosing to find hard cover before engaging....even if he had not realized that the BG was wearing armor until the lead was flying...it may have bought him the time he needed to plant a head shot! As most of you know, consistant 50 yrd head shots are difficult to make even with an accurate full-size 1911 on a good day without anyone shooting back at you with a rifle (you do train for this, right).
Since this happened on a city street, I also wonder if the backdrop beyond the shooter was safe for these attempted shots, cause missing from that distance under pressure is a very real and potentially deadly scenario for other citizens!! The article I read mentioned the police were taking cover and returning fire from behind cars…if only Mr. Wilson might have done the same. There are indeed many lessons to be learned from this……
Kimber Ultra CDP Elite STS II
A gun is a tool...the real weapon is between your ears!
March 2nd, 2005 01:08 AM
This is a training issue, pure and simple:
1) If you heared the shots from your apartment down the street you should have grabbed a rifle.
2) say the rifle wasn't handy, you should have closed the gap, utilized cover and shot him in the back with no warning.
March 2nd, 2005 04:35 PM
You sound a little to ninja to be fiddlefarting around my little town playing, Clubsoda. I thought Ninja Turtles went out a ways back?
Originally Posted by clubsoda22
March 6th, 2005 10:00 AM
From the Texas State Rifle Association...
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have had numerous requests about funds or memorials in support of Mark Wilson, the CHL holder who was killed in Tyler during the recent courthouse shooting. Mark’s family has requested that any donations be made to the following charity:
P.O. Box 6564
Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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