Red dot or reflex sight for CCW?

This is a discussion on Red dot or reflex sight for CCW? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In the newest issue (April/May 2007) of Handguns Magazine there is an article by Dave Spaulding (The Combative Pistol Sight on pg 56) which contrasts ...

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Thread: Red dot or reflex sight for CCW?

  1. #1
    Member Array Warren's Avatar
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    Red dot or reflex sight for CCW?

    In the newest issue (April/May 2007) of Handguns Magazine there is an article by Dave Spaulding (The Combative Pistol Sight on pg 56) which contrasts and compares the various types of pistol sights from a defensive use standpoint.

    One of the sights is JP Enterprises (jprifles.com) version of The Doctor called the J Point.

    It is lighter and less expensive than the Doctor but is not as precise.

    The question I have is it something you would use for a combat pistol? Either nightstand, open carry or CCW?

    Pros? Cons?

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  3. #2
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    I wouldn't use one for any type of carry. Good luck getting a holster to fit a pistol with that that allows for a good clean draw. Just one more thing to go wrong, and it doesn't look like you can use the sights with one, so what do you do if it somehow gets turned on and the betteries get run down and then you really need it (like on Murphy's Birthday).

    I would buy a set of crimson trace grips for less (and I don't really like lasers on most types of weapons), before I put that sight on a pistol.

    As far as home defense, you still have the problem of one more thing that can and will go wrong.
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    Opinions may vary quite a bit but IMO a reflex sight is a luxury that may well not really be used to effect, in extremis.

    My only concession to additions is my CT grips - beyond which the open sights are all I want. they are night sights but to be honest I doubt those will ever really come into their own as a feature.

    Even with very poor old eyes and so a poor sight picture I'd still place all emphasis on a degree of point shooting, with sighting of any sort being a possible luxury.

    If time permitted and light was below max bright then every possibility I would see my laser dot without seeking it - but main intention always is to point as primary mode, followed by more defined sighting should time permit.

    Thing is - on balance we are most likely to be up close and personal and I don't feel reflex devices gain us anything to speak of - altho great for longer range deliberate shooting. Plus they can add to holster headaches.
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    Dot sights are great for target or hunting guns, but I find the optics way too big for CC
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    The dot sight he is referring to replaces the rear sight on the handgun, and fits most holsters.

    Even if it was a standard red dot sight, couldn't one of our fine custom holster makers on this forum make one? Or he could use one of the speed style holsters that have most of the front cut away.

    As for using it for HD, I think that would be a good idea as you focus on the threat, and the red dot is best used by focusing on the target. The battery and reliablility arguments are rather pointless at this time, since we see battery lives in the hundred of hours and reliability good enough for the military to put them on almost every longarm in their inventory.
    Last edited by AutoFan; February 28th, 2007 at 12:52 AM. Reason: spelling, grammar

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    The battery and reliablility arguments are rather pointless at this time, since we see battery lives in the hundred of hours and reliability good enough for the military to put them on almost every longarm in their inventory.
    The ones the military uses are quite a bit bigger and more rugged than anything you could reasonably mount on a pistol. In addition, most military rifles also have backup iron sights in case the optic fails. As you pointed out, these replace the rear sight, so no backup.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    A few misconceptions. Here's a link to the Jpoint, although there area few other makes, of similar dimensions.
    https://www.eabco.com/jpoint01.html
    Carry is not a problem, the sight is no wider than the slide on a Glock, is far enough to the rear of the slide that it does not contact the holster, and, though it is higher, is kept away from your body by any normal sweat guard.

    Very fast. More speed/accuracy friendly, as you have more full view of the target; the target is not able to "drop" from sight quite so readily, as the slide and your hands are lower in your field of view. As far as BUIS, this is no different than the Eotech- you put the target in the window and "Bang!".

    Batteries are not a durability issue- I've shot a mix of hot (Corbon) and standard loads (WWB), and not had a "blink" or fade. Duration- I'm waiting to see. IIRC, Kelly McCann was reporting >12 months with no degradation. (If you are of the school of "clean my gun once every six months", changing a $1.25 battery each Christmas should not be a problem. )

    500 rounds so far. Sturdy enough to rack on my belt/boot/whatever. The experience goes on. My other Glocks still have XS sights, if I continue to like what I'm experiencing with my second-hand Optima, I will be getting a new Jpoint, with the upgraded diode and water seal. At least one......

    FYI- you can whale hard (ie, baton-blows)on a dufflebag, using the sight as an impact point and it doesn't hurt it.
    Last edited by Rob72; February 28th, 2007 at 10:33 AM.

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    Senior Member Array Steve48's Avatar
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    I would not use a red dot or reflex sight for my conceal weapons. Steve48

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    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Nice for hunting and plinking but it stops there. Anything protruding , even as limited as it is, is a high risk of it slowing the draw, not to mention, battery life, in a defensive situation there will be no time to turn the sight on and to look through the glass for the red dot. No thanks, give me good ol'e iron sights that I can acquire quickly and accuratley.
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
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    Member Array chrisinmaine's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with the sight your talking about, but I just put Suresights on my xd .45 and I love 'em. They pick up super fast, they fit in most holsters, and they're very bright in low light situations w/o fiber optics or battery.

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    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    Looks good to me - but - I'd like to be able to give it a trial use for a month THEN make up my mind & not have to pay until then. Fat chance of this ever happening....

    I just might like it but don't want to chance not liking it and losing $$$
    For God, Family and Country!

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    Looks good to me - but - I'd like to be able to give it a trial use for a month THEN make up my mind & not have to pay until then. Fat chance of this ever happening....

    I just might like it but don't want to chance not liking it and losing $$$
    I'm not affiliated with the seller,other than acquiring one of my Optimas from him. He's GTG:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/TASCO-OPTIMA-200...QQcmdZViewItem

    Not everyone has $100 to try something out, I realize. Having done some research, and seeing some of the users and their usage of the Docter-style sight, I decided it was worth the gamble. The Optimas from sacchan appear to be factory refurbs, and are 1/2-1/3 the price
    of the JPoint. Having tried one for a couple of high volume sessions,and 6 months, I'm fairly certain I'll be paying for the upgraded JPoint.

    Anyone remember night sights being called "novelties", 15-20 years ago.......?

    AC, if you have a Glock, LMK. I have another Optima, with Glock base I'd be willing to share for a month or so. Its a "first-generation", and takes a bit more tinkering with the screws to zero, but seems as solid as the one I got from the guy above.

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    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Anyone remember night sights being called "novelties", 15-20 years ago.......?
    Yep. I also remember rifle scopes being called too fragile for dangerous game. I remember variable scopes being called too prone to failure for >30 caliber rifles. I remember the hatred for the M16 when it first came out. I remember lasers being called toys until the military/SWAT started using them. I remember red dots being called toys until the military started putting them on almost every longarm. I remember polymer pistols being called junk and toys until Glocks were issued to cops.

    Personally I think the JPoint (or something very similiar) is the best sighting option out there right now, especially for those of us with aging eyes.

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    Yep. I also remember rifle scopes being called too fragile for dangerous game. I remember variable scopes being called too prone to failure for >30 caliber rifles. I remember the hatred for the M16 when it first came out. I remember lasers being called toys until the military/SWAT started using them. I remember red dots being called toys until the military started putting them on almost every longarm. I remember polymer pistols being called junk and toys until Glocks were issued to cops.
    Of course, at one point, rifle scopes were too fragile for dangerous game, variable scopes were to prone to failure on high caliber rifles, the M16 did suck when it first came out (at least when firing the ammo the Army issued), and lasers and red dots were toys. Then the quality and ruggedness of all of these things improved until they reached the point where they were ready for serious use. So, the question is: have reflex pistol sights reached this point? Are you sure enough that they have that you'd be willing to bet your life on it?

    Quite frankly, I'm not, but YMMV.

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