This Makes Me Very Sad

This is a discussion on This Makes Me Very Sad within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Euclidean: You can disagree if you want to, but I'm speaking from personal experience as a part-time instructor. To this day, even after countless hours ...

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Thread: This Makes Me Very Sad

  1. #16
    Member Array triggertime's Avatar
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    Euclidean: You can disagree if you want to, but I'm speaking from personal experience as a part-time instructor. To this day, even after countless hours of 'pep talks' I still know people who carry chamber empty and still carry their 5-shot revolvers with an empty chamber under the hammer and an empty chamber following it.

    When asked why, the usual response is, 'I don't want to shoot myself taking the gun off or putting it on...' which I counter with "keep your finger off the trigger and that won't happen." That ends with a blank stare from the student.

    What can you do in that situation? Other than recommend that they leave the gun at home and carry pepper spray instead?

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  3. #17
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    My father would CC a Golt Gov't .380 unchambered. When I asked why, he said he didn't trust cocked n' locked carry. And when I'd show him my little Mustang in my ankle holster, he would say, "doesn't the safety ever slip?"

    This is a man who has handled firearms safely and competantly all his life. With as many options as there are on the market, there was no logical reason for him to continue to carry an unchambered handgun.

    A Colt Detective Special solved the problem. He carries it with the cylinder full.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  4. #18
    Member Array spacemanspiff's Avatar
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    but it looks so cool to unholster and rack the slide!

  5. #19
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    Euclidean Concerning Glock

    Good Post (up there) By The Way.........
    You should be aware that GLOCK semi~auto pistols are not actually "cocked" until the trigger is pulled rearward. So even with a round in the chamber the Glock firearm is not a "striker fire" fully cocked & just "invisible to the eye" type firearm.
    They are very safe if you keep the old "fateful finger" out of the trigger guard. That info. might help with your decision to buy a Glock.

    Betty ~ JT ~ Bumper ~ Triggertime ~ Scott ~ Armoredman etc.
    As Always.......Thanks for your valuable input.

    I don't think in this scenario that even a D.A.O. J frame revolver would have helped this guy out too much.
    First of all the BGs obviously "got the drop" on him & he was not at all mentally prepared to use ANY deadly weapon.
    I am best guessing that he still has that same "victim mindset" even after this incident.
    Qualified training and proper instruction is so important.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  6. #20
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    Just thought of this.
    Interesting bit of American History.
    Some "Gunfighters" in the days of the Ol' Wild West that carried Colt Single Action type wheel guns made GOOD USE of the necessary empty chamber under the hammer.
    They rolled up a paper money bill & stuffed it into their empty cylinder hole.
    I don't remember the exact denomination...$20.00 $50.00 $100.00 ??? ~ but that was their "burying money" if they lost a gun fight.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggertime
    Euclidean: You can disagree if you want to, but I'm speaking from personal experience as a part-time instructor. To this day, even after countless hours of 'pep talks' I still know people who carry chamber empty and still carry their 5-shot revolvers with an empty chamber under the hammer and an empty chamber following it.

    When asked why, the usual response is, 'I don't want to shoot myself taking the gun off or putting it on...' which I counter with "keep your finger off the trigger and that won't happen." That ends with a blank stare from the student.

    What can you do in that situation? Other than recommend that they leave the gun at home and carry pepper spray instead?
    Wow that's an extreme case. Even I carry keep all 5 chambers loaded and I've never thought to do otherwise. It makes perfect sense to me. Do not manipulate the trigger and the gun will not fire.

    Well there does come a point as an instructor where you have done all you can do for somebody, and they have to want to change. I've always said I can teach geometry to a fence post if the fence post wants to learn.

    These people have chosen to, effectively, not arm themselves. I do not consider such a person to be in the same vein as someone else who is trying to overcome their own limitations.

    I suppose we actually agree, and all you're saying is some people have already given up, and I'm saying some people are actually trying to learn. It's the same in every classroom. Regardless, I try my best to treat everyone as if they are trying to actually learn.

  8. #22
    JT
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    You should be aware that GLOCK semi~auto pistols are not actually "cocked" until the trigger is pulled rearward. So even with a round in the chamber the Glock firearm is not a "striker fire" fully cocked & just "invisible to the eye" type firearm.
    They are very safe if you keep the old "fateful finger" out of the trigger guard.
    Good point. This is an important difference between Glocks and some “Glock-type” guns. Steyr is one example of a Glock copy that is fully (or almost fully) cocked before the trigger is pulled.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    I would suggest that we examine ourselves before spending too much time examining others.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC135
    I would suggest that we examine ourselves before spending too much time examining others.
    Maybe, but there may be several people thinking this way active or lurking on the forum. I don't think anyone is judging the guy, just discussing these types of attitudes and thoughts. If the guy was here reading all this he might get over his discomfort of carrying a chambered round. These types of discussions frequently makes me examine myself.
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  11. #25
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    I find that reading others posts helps me to modify or change tactics, training methods and overall mindset. I do not tell people what they should do, but may voice my opinions or suggest things. I personally don't like to carry a pistol without a manual safety. I like the fact if someone does get a hand on my gun the safety may prevent em from firing it.

  12. #26
    Member Array Deke45's Avatar
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    Wow

    Those were some good thought provoking posts. The summary goes back to the basics:

    1. Know your limitations...physically and especially mentally.
    2. Learn to crawl, walk, then run...in that order.
    3. Become totally one with whatever firearm you choose to carry...heart, mind, & soul. If you can't, then find one you can! If ya still can't, get a dog!
    4. Accept the responsibility & dedication that your decision to carry demands by overcoming fears and security blanket mentallity that can get you killed because you were not 100% familiar, committed, competent, & confident in your abilities and your equipment.
    5. Oh, and practice your ass off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    With a semiautomatic you may have no earthly idea depending on its exact configuration. Unless you have X ray vision there is that ambiguity.
    I have to disagree with a portion of your otherwise elegantly written post. Consistency in your habits breeds familiarity..no matter what state of stress you are in.
    I can tell you at at any given time the condition of my firearm - One in the chamber, full magazine, cocked & locked...24/7....absolutely no ambiguity here! What could be easier than that!!

    Ya know, someone told me I'm gonna like it here...I think they were right!

    Kimber Ultra CDP Elite STS II

    A gun is a tool...the real weapon is between your ears!

  13. #27
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    As I write this (and watch TV), a Glock is within arm's reach. And I'm in my home.

    My guess is that with all of the secure doors and windows, an alarm and a 'safe room,' that I'll pretty much survive the night.

    There is a point where your safety must be an active principle.

    You invade my home, you meet the Glock.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Deke I see what you're saying from one perspective. What I was referring to is that a quick visual inspection makes it obvious if there is a catridge casing in any given cylinder chamber, even the one about to be fired.

    OTOH my P89 looks the exact same if the chamber is full or empty.

    What I'm afraid of is someone throwing a gun on, going out, having to use it, and finding they just assumed they had one in the chamber when in fact they did not. How easy would it be to slide in a magazine, be momentarily distracted, and simply assume you racked the slide like you would have any other time?

    Now some guns do have loaded chamber indicators, but as far as I'm concerned you never really know until you physically check.

    The first rule of gun safety is of course that all guns are always loaded. That has a double meaning as espoused by this scenario.

  15. #29
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    I can tell you at at any given time the condition of my firearm - One in the chamber, full magazine, cocked & locked...24/7....absolutely no ambiguity here! What could be easier than that!!

    Yep , the only time my chamber is unloded is when the slide is locked back.

  16. #30
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    I do a press check every time I put mine on and go out into the world....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

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