This Makes Me Very Sad

This is a discussion on This Makes Me Very Sad within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Treating every firearm as if it were always loaded means that the finger is never in the trigger guard until the firearm is visually & ...

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Thread: This Makes Me Very Sad

  1. #46
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    Sorry Euclidian BUT...

    Treating every firearm as if it were always loaded means that the finger is never in the trigger guard until the firearm is visually & physically checked for being unloaded.
    I always VERIFY to check for unloaded.
    I always assume HOT until positively verified as unloaded.
    The only N.D. that I know of personally here in Pittsburgh where another individual (an innocent) was shot and actually had part of his inner thigh blown out (while he was just sitting in a chair) was with a .357 Mag revolver. Some total jerk (his friend) ran up to him to show him his brand new revolver & accidentally pulled the trigger on that revolver that he "thought" was unloaded.
    Your Marine & your range owner had suffered "Brain Farts" because if their fingers were out of the trigger guard until they checked those pistols for "MAGAZINE OUT & CHAMBER EMPTY" the guns would not have gone off by themselves.
    Last edited by QKShooter; March 4th, 2005 at 06:29 PM.
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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Guys I will not debate that it's imperative to keep your finger off the trigger, and that dropping the magazine and checking the chamber should be automatic. I don't think there isn't anyone who doesn't do it religiously.

    When you do a thing all the time, and I mean all the time, it becomes a good habit. For example, I ALWAYS distribute the negative across the polynomial. ALWAYS. It would be a mark of ignorance and inexperience not to.

    Similarly I'm sure all you guys ALWAYS check the chamber. ALWAYS. I never have failed to and I think we're all capable of handling such a simple thing.

    But now the point emerges.

    Once last year, I messed up on a problem where I failed to distribute a negative sign across one term of a polynomial. It took me 5 minutes to find my error because I don't make mistakes like that.

    Now does that make me an incompetent worthless mathematician simply because I made that error? Does that erode my years of education experience and my hours upon hours of course work?

    Of course not. It makes me human. I simply made a mistake even though it's a mistake I'll probably never make again.

    These guys wound up getting hurt because you know what, they don't make mistakes like that.

    One night in a dark alley, someone may very well go down when their hammer falls on an empty chamber because they don't make mistakes like that.

    For the moment it won't be me. Five holes are drilled in the cylinder, five catridges fill them all up. It's clearly visible to the naked eye.
    Last edited by Euclidean; March 4th, 2005 at 06:43 PM.

  4. #48
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    From a safety standpoint, a gun is (for me) ALWAYS loaded ... and following the rules means that if one is breached then the others should buffer against tragedy. Rule #2 is actually my own #1.

    From a carry POV ... still not ignoring safety - a check has to be made that the gun IS indeed loaded ... either a full chamber or with revo, obviously - all cyls full. The check being made in a safe manner - rules #1 and #2 in particular being observed.

    The common ground for errors is (IMO) complacency - often born of long term familiarity for many of us - the easy ability to 'assume'' ... often habit induced, not thinking clearly as we do an oft repeated drill. We are fallible beings and have to remember that.

    Two very useful phrases I try and follow, whether it be shooting, carrying, biking, driving generally, are ...

    "Don't assume'' (anything).

    "Expect the unexpected".

    They are similar but, they have saved my butt more than once - most usually when biking.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    The common ground for errors is (IMO) complacency - often born of long term familiarity for many of us - the easy ability to 'assume'' ... often habit induced, not thinking clearly as we do an oft repeated drill. We are fallible beings and have to remember that.

    What I was attempting to say, P95 has said much more gracefully.

  6. #50
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    Euclidean

    I submit that the very same way that a "human being" will pick up a semi~auto & pull the trigger without checking the chamber will also be the exact same way that another human being will pick up a DA only revolver & pull the trigger without first even looking at it.
    Once you have actually seen a few exit wounds in a human body ~ you'll not ever forget to keep your finger off the trigger & you'll not ever forget to check the chamber.
    And Euclidean...if your very life & those of your loved ones and other innocent folks depended on you always distributing that negative across the polynomial.
    You WOULD always do it & not forget to do it. ALWAYS.

    Also concerning ASSUMPTIONS ~ It is always safe to assume that EVERY firearm is HOT & loaded. It is never safe to assume that it is empty.
    Last edited by QKShooter; March 4th, 2005 at 07:11 PM.
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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Fair enough. Let's chalk it all up to personal preferences and move on!

  8. #52
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    A very small caveat - afterthought - sorry to be butting in again!

    I think one way of dealing with any of our ''drills'' - is to force self to treat them always as if, first time - sublimate the urge to ''just do it, as always''. It is therefore done in a higher state of consciousness.

    If anyone has ever handled explosives - and applies that to gun handling - they will probably agree that a degree of ''pucker factor'' is sometimes quite healthy!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Well and part of it is too that it's so easy to be defeatist. How many times have we all heard don't even bother carrying a gun it'll just be used against you?

    Don't carry that revolver the cylinder will jam.

    Don't carry that semiautomatic you won't know if the chamber is loaded or not.

    They're both equally unlikely statements. It could and probably does happen, but I will face these odds long before I face the liabilities of being helpless in the first place.

    I've fallen into the defeatist mindset before and still do every so often. You gotta watch me.

  10. #54
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    Sorry P95Carry but I (respectfully) Disagree

    You said:
    "Don't assume'' (anything).

    We assume ALL THE TIME.
    Our lives revolve around intelligent assumptions.

    Before a S.W.A.T. team enters a building...don't they always assume that it is occupied even if it may not be?

    Doesn't every "Bomb Squad" assume that every possible bomb is a live bomb even if it's just an empty suitcase left inside the bank?

    Every smart cop assumes that every junkie they are about to frisk on the street could have an A.I.D.S. hypo needle tucked in his pocket.

    Need 10,000 more examples? Let me know.
    Last edited by QKShooter; March 4th, 2005 at 07:28 PM.
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  11. #55
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    I don't think the type of gun auto or revolver makes it more safe, its the operator.

  12. #56
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    Cocked and Locked

    Prospector, Your comment made me think of a story told by Elmer Kieth, although similarities are few. I guess the thought of having an AD so close to your leg or hip reminded me of this one. It seems when Elmer was younger he worked as a cowboy on a cattle ranch, and single action Colts were rountinely carried on the range. (grassland not shooting) At chow time he took off his gunbelt and holster but stuck the Colt in his waistband, in front, in case a rattler just happened to crawl out from under the wash stand. One evening, as he was drying his face and hands, one of the Mexican vaqueros pointed at his waist band and said, "Senor, Your pistola, it is cocked." Elmer had a brief moment of shocked disbelief and then very carefully remedied the situation. I think each of us has probably imagined what would happen if our favorite piece AD'ed in the holster. However, I have complete faith in John Browning's safety features and carry my .45 cocked and locked at all times. It is not simply a matter of the safety getting "rubbed off" but also the grip safety must be depressed at the same time.

  13. #57
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    Thumbs up Hotel Charlie

    "Senor, Your pistola, it is cocked."
    haha haha
    Better to hear that than: "BANG!"
    "Senor, Your c**k, it is on the ground." :3schild40
    Last edited by QKShooter; March 6th, 2005 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Add Dancing Ba ~Na ~ Nah
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  14. #58
    Senior Member Array Prospector's Avatar
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    Red face

    HotelCharlie - yeah, this is the first 1911 I've ever owned, so not feeling "totally" comfortable with this tool, it took several months of just carrying it around the house "cocked and locked" before using it as my primary carry gun. As I had said, my Beretta is a DA and I had used it for a lotta years...felt "comfortable" with it.

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