Believer CC reservations? - Page 2

Believer CC reservations?

This is a discussion on Believer CC reservations? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have never really struggled at all with the idea of using force to defend or protect. I believe that it is our responsibility as ...

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Thread: Believer CC reservations?

  1. #16
    Senior Moderator
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    I have never really struggled at all with the idea of using force to defend or protect.

    I believe that it is our responsibility as Christians to protect not only ourselves but all that we are capable of.

    Personally, I dont believe in coincidences. I think that if you happen to walk into a qiuckiemart and into a holdup, that you are there for a reason, and as good neighbors we would be impelled to act if someone were endangered.

    There are many here that would argue that point, and thats fine, but they aren't Christian and they dont see it as such. Some Christians dont believe in defending anything, others wouldn't intervene for fear of legal repercussion and thats OK too. That is their thought process, not mine.

    Your eyes have been opened. The fact that you understand that there are bad people out there puts you above the average person that doesn't know or want to believe that bad things can happen to them.

    We will all be judged for what we did and what we didn't do. If I go down in a fight, at least I'll be able to say that I tried my best. I'd rather be judged for that rather than letting someone get hurt because I failed to act, when I had the means to prevent it.

    There ya have it.
    Last edited by HotGuns; March 3rd, 2007 at 12:23 PM.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #17
    Member Array sjp2452's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverbruce View Post
    Thanks Mike for your post and sharing your thoughts and concerns. I've been a pastor for 35 years and started carrying 3 years ago. What percipitated my decision was taking the grandkids around town, i.e. the mall, Mickey D's, the park, etc. Everytime I read or heard another story about kids being snatched, abused, killed and traffiked, or some nutcase walking in a mall, restaurant, etc. and blowing people away... I began to ponder my personal responsibility. Remember Cain, the murderer of Able and his statement to God... "Am I my brother's keeper?" The obvious implied answer is yes, absolutely.

    Another passage that speaks to my responsibility in this area is... "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." Pretty strong words. Among other provisions I make for my family, I provide safety and protection for them.

    Beyond my immediate family, consider the story of the Good Samaritan. "Who is my neighbor?" the man asked. Its obvious from that story that I bear some resonsibility for others as well. Just some thoughts for you today.
    +1, well said. When I became a father my entire attitude about self defense changed when I saw the same news stories. The Elizabeth Smart and Jessica Lunsford cases in particular did it to me. Incidentally, the guy who tortured, raped and buried Jessie alive is on trial now. I can't help but want that man dead, and I'd pull the trigger myself if they'd let me. That said, when I became a seminary student (likely to be a pastor in another year or two) the question was renewed...but then I read what Jesus said about the hired hands not caring about the sheep, and running away when the wolf comes. What does a good undershepherd do when the wolf comes? If there are no sheepdogs among the flock with the teeth to take on the wolf, the undershepherd must himself be prepared. I'd much rather have a couple armed off duty cops in my congregation, but I do and will continue to carry, even in church. If God sees fit to allow a BG to overwhelm my ability to defend, then let His will be done. As I see it right now, it is given to me to be concerned about this--not many churchgoers are, and even fewer pastors.

    There have been Sunday mornings where I decided I didn't want to carry...it's heavy, it's a burden, I have to be careful so I don't get busted, can't give or receive hugs from good friends... I just didn't want to put it on. Then conviction overtakes me, knowing that I will have already made the decision to not protect if it were to happen that day. Sometimes it's hard, but I do see it as a call and as a gift.

    I charge you, though--make that decision very carefully. Rom 14:23.

  3. #18
    Member Array Cajun's Avatar
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    Hot: Very well said. I agree, I am my brothers keeper.
    D

  4. #19
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    I once wrote a piece on how God was the biggest advocate of war. While self-defense is not really war, the same principle applies.

    The only killing God is against is unjust killing. Self-defense is a just killing.

  5. #20
    Member Array lee n. field's Avatar
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    Being a Born Again Believer, there were many aspects of weapons/concealed carry that I had to pray and consider carefully. I guess its obvious which side of the fence I came down on since Im in here, but I just wondered if any other Believers out there had the same struggle? Thank you all in advance and God bless, Mike.
    Not an easy question. I would draw your attention to the Westminster Larger Catechism's discussion of the 6th commandment:

    Question 136: What are the sins forbidden in the sixth commandment?

    Answer: The sins forbidden in the sixth commandment are, all taking away the life of ourselves, or of others, except in case of public justice, lawful war, or necessary defense; the neglecting or withdrawing the lawful and necessary means of preservation of life; sinful anger, hatred, envy, desire of revenge;all excessive passions, distracting cares; immoderate use of meat, drink, labor, and recreations; provoking words, oppression, quarreling, striking, wounding, and: Whatsoever else tends to the destruction of the life of any.

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array HOLYROLLER's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 0.02
    Why is everything treated as a proper noun?

    I love capital letters. When I write on paper its in all caps, but its apparently bad etiquitte electronically because its percieved as yelling. I also enjoy using disproportionate numbers of comma's, exclamation points and the occasional semi-colon! See?!

    Seriously though, in Scripture many words connected with God are given capitals as a matter of reverence (Him, He, Alpha, Yahweh, etc.).

  7. #22
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    Holyroller and others reading this thread who haven't yet dropped by the Calling All Christians / Preacher thread in the Member Meeting Place forum, please drop in and share with us a little about yourself.

    Also know that as long as this thread goes as it has been going it will be allowed to continue. Sometimes threads like this take a turn downhill and have to be closed. The rules of CombatCarry exclude posting on a purely religious or political subject. Since this one was begun and has continued as a thread focused on concealed carry from a Christian perspective it is OK. If it starts to slip one of the moderators will close it. If this happens don't get too upset. We have pretty strict policies and we enforce them. As a Christian, I agreed to abide by the rules when I joined here and I expect all of the Christians who are members here to abide by them as well. If this thread were to be closed it would not be because of the fact that the posters are Christian, it would be because it has slipped over into an area that we feel is off limits.

    Thanks for the thread and for the understanding.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  8. #23
    Member Array sjp2452's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOLYROLLER View Post
    Originally Posted by 0.02
    Why is everything treated as a proper noun?

    I love capital letters. When I write on paper its in all caps, but its apparently bad etiquitte electronically because its percieved as yelling. I also enjoy using disproportionate numbers of comma's, exclamation points and the occasional semi-colon! See?!

    Seriously though, in Scripture many words connected with God are given capitals as a matter of reverence (Him, He, Alpha, Yahweh, etc.).
    Unfortunately it's not done in every translation. I wish that it were. For me it's one more (albeit small) way I can honor the One who died in my place.

  9. #24
    Member Array sjp2452's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerw View Post
    Gabe Suarez has written extensively about self-defense from a Christian perspective. Here is a sample.

    Bill
    Bill, thanks for that link. Holy good stuff, batman!

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array HOLYROLLER's Avatar
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    Agreed Sir, that was my intent from the beginning as I stated in my original post. I plan to visit the mentioned thread as soon as I get a chance. Thank you and God bless, Mike.

  11. #26
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    although i may not carry your same religious beliefs, the decision to carry or not was not taken lightly. i believe that it is every person's God given right to defend themselves and or family/friends. i also believe that anyone trying to harm me or my family really has no consideration for my beliefs and probably isn't following the rules of any faith. that being said i have already made peace with my decision to escalate the level of instant karma to whatever means necessary. constantly train and may you live in peace.

  12. #27
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    George: Thank You for your considerate nature, it is appreciated. I, for one, fully understand how discussions can and do get out of hand. I am glad to know that I am not the only Christian with serious thoughts about concealed carry and its' responsibilities for Christians. This is not to say others should not take this deadly serious, maybe its' just that Believers tend to overthink most situations. My idea is that your thinking should have been done before you strapped on the weapon, when the time comes, you won't have time to think, just react.
    Thank You
    Danny

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjp2452 View Post
    For me it's one more (albeit small) way I can honor the One who died in my place.
    +1!! AMEN!

    Quote Originally Posted by dr_cmg View Post
    Holyroller and others reading this thread who haven't yet dropped by the Calling All Christians / Preacher thread in the Member Meeting Place forum, please drop in and share with us a little about yourself.
    Just a step ahead of me on the reminder / suggestion!

    I'm a Christian and I find that the attitude of the heart has much to do with how God would view the taking of human life. [Please don't misinterpret - these are just my opinions!]

    If you're defending life and take a life UNINTENTIONALLY is a totally different matter than doing so INTENTIONALLY with hate and anger in your heart and mind. Hopefully, you would never pull and fire your weapon with the INTENTION of killing and murdering, but merely to stop the threat and to protect yourself and those whom you love. The decision to carry and the possible ramifications of such a decision are weighty and obviously never to be taken lightly.

    God ultimately knows our hearts, minds, and intentions.
    It's not about the caliber you carry, it's about how you USE it.

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  14. #29
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    Our laws in this country are based on Judao-Christian Ethic and recognize the difference between killing and murder.

    Exodus 20:13 says: "Thou shalt not kill". A more accurate English translation is: You shall not commit a murder.

    We do not shoot to kill and certainly not to murder, we shoot to stop. It is never our intention that the BG dies, just that he stops his life threatening actions.

    As a believer I know that my intentions are good and socially responsible. I have had the benefit of hundreds of hours of Police training specific to “shoot – don’t shoot” scenarios and other weapons tactics training. I am no longer a LEO but to me, to be anywhere in public and NOT be prepared (CCW) would be the most selfish thing I believe I could do.

    To take on the responsibility of carrying a deadly weapon is a serious decision to make.
    I believe that the majority of those who do have risen to a higher level of personal and social purpose and are an asset to their family and community. They are to be commended, not made to feel unwanted or unappreciated. To me it’s more than a Constitutional right, it’s an honor!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  15. #30
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    I'll start off by saying that I am not a Christian, by strict definition. I am a Messianic Jew. The distinction is important here only in that Messianics believe that the Torah (the first five books of the Bible) are the foundation for the rest of the entire book, as well as the teachings of The Messiah Himself. (there we go again with the caps - it's a matter of respect to capitalize references to the ).

    In any event, this is a conflict that I have simply not had as an adult. In reading the Torah (which is, as previously mentioned the historical foundation for our own legal system) very clear distinctions are made between murder (defined as the shedding of innocent blood) and killing someone in self defense, or in the defense of a family member. These actions are not even considered to be even remotely connected to murder from a moral perspective. It is seen more as a distasteful, but necessary duty to one's family. The story of Abraham's rescue of his nephew, Lot ( Genesis 14) is a superb example of this.
    Since I consider God to be the ultimate authority in the entire universe, His opinion is good enough for me. This was further reinforced by The Messiah in Luke 22, verse 36 when He commanded His talmidim (disciples) to arm themselves and assume responsibility for their own safety.

    So, I hope and pray that I am never going to find myself in such a terrible position as to be forced to choose between employing lethal force and losing my own life, or that of a loved one. However, in such a situation, the proper and morally correct course of action is crystal clear - I will use whatever amount of force is necessary to protect myself or a family member - and do so with a clear conscience.

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