Concealed Carry and Education
This is a discussion on Concealed Carry and Education within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I work in the education system of Pennsylvania, however, I do not work in a school. I work in an educational service center that specializes ...
March 3rd, 2007 12:16 PM
Concealed Carry and Education
I work in the education system of Pennsylvania, however, I do not work in a school. I work in an educational service center that specializes mostly in the professional development of teachers.
There has been some controversy over whether concealed carry at my building is lawful or not. When I asked my mentor if she had come across this issue before she said she had not. I asked if I should let my employer know that I am a concealed carrier and she recommended that because of the "liberal" attitude in our building I should not (she suspected word would get around that I carried and anti-gun individuals would make my working environment uncomfortable, at best). She assured me that because, technically, we were not a school there was no reason why I should not be able to carry and that the best thing to do was just not to let anyone know one way or the other if I decide to or not. That is a principle I've been acting on for two years now.
However, not long ago I started getting sent to various schools and districts to do presentations and trainings of a product we were developing for our districts. While I always secure my sidearm in my vehicle while going into schools, I've always been unsure about carrying in administrative buildings (and some of these buildings are in questionable neighborhoods). Again, most of them are not "technically" schools, but they are more or an educational institution than my building is.
I'm uncomfortable leaving my weapon in the car, and would prefer to have it on my body at all times, however, I want to be a law-abiding citizen.
What of district or school administrative buildings, do they fall under the "No Gun Zone" or not?
Last edited by limatunes; March 3rd, 2007 at 02:14 PM.
March 3rd, 2007 12:16 PM
March 3rd, 2007 01:12 PM
Like most of the others on this form I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. You might try packing.org for this question or contact your state agency that administers/oversees your CCW. Possibly your local sheriffs department would be able to answer your questions. I would think that as long as you are not going into the school you are ok. But then again isn’t the law written that you can’t carry a gun within 1000 feet of a school?
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March 3rd, 2007 01:40 PM
I would contact a PA Lawyer
One that is familiar with the PA restrictions.
You will need to find out if the place that you work could possibly be classed as a School or School Property.
Then if you're legally within your rights to carry where you work and you are within the guidelines of PA State law...go out and buy a smaller unobtrusive firearm & never mention to another human being that it's on your person.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
March 3rd, 2007 01:58 PM
Been there, looked at it (PDO, that is), still undetermined.. Also, looked at my own Company's "weapons policy" and the "Safe Schools" act information website.
The state law does specify that the phrase "educational institution" usually refers to K-12 schools, but doesn't specify if that covers administration buildings for K-12 schools.
The last two talk about students not having weapons, but nothing about administrators or employees or citizens who are lawfully armed.
It's a very gray area.
As far as the 1000 foot rule, that is also a gray area especially when considering the parents who carry who come to pick their children up from school or even the people walking on the side-walk past a school. How far do you take it?
March 3rd, 2007 02:02 PM
Very good info, the place of work in question has no employee firearms policy. And as for smaller and more unobtrousive, not much smaller than a Mustang out there unless we get her a Beretta .32Acp...
Originally Posted by QKShooter
PA state law states:
PA state law is kind of vague in regards to CCW and schools.
§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.
(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose
The text in bold makes for a good gray area debate. But I'd hate to be a test case.
March 3rd, 2007 05:09 PM
I'd say go have a 5-minuite face-to-face with your sheriff about it. It is gray, and he (?) might have a much better idea of what it actually means.
I would say that if the building that you work in can be classified as a business (i.e. non-publicly funded) you ought to be just fine.
March 3rd, 2007 11:10 PM
Personally, I would not ask the sheriff or other LE. Contacting the AG of PA might be a better way of getting a definite answer.
Originally Posted by sjp2452
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
March 3rd, 2007 11:38 PM
After searching PDO, it seems a member did in fact try that got a rather ambigious answer. I just sent the following inquiry to the AG.
Originally Posted by rocky
Dear sir, after reviewing Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes
CRIMES AND OFFENSES (TITLE 18) section 912, I have a question regarding educational facilities and persons legally liscensed to carry a firearm in the State of Pennsylvania.
Section 912 states
c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.
My question: Is legally carring a firearm for self defense while liscensed valid due to section "C" stating that a firearm my be possessed for "Other lawful purpose" It seems that it would be legal, however the text of section 912 does not clearly state what a lawful purpose may be.
Furthermore what is considered school property, do educational administrative buildings or the County Intermediate Units fall into this category?
Thank you for your time and any further information you may be able to provide.
Well see what the man has to say.
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