D.C. Gun Ban Dead {Merged}

This is a discussion on D.C. Gun Ban Dead {Merged} within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; DC Circuit Strikes Down DC Gun Law Under the 2nd Amendment: This morning the D.C. Circuit handed down a decision endorsing the individual rights view ...

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Thread: D.C. Gun Ban Dead {Merged}

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    D.C. Gun Ban Dead {Merged}

    DC Circuit Strikes Down DC Gun Law Under the 2nd Amendment: This morning the D.C. Circuit handed down a decision endorsing the individual rights view of the Second Amendment and striking down the District of Columbia's broad gun ban. The opinion in Parker v. District of Columbia is here. The majority opinion was by Judge Silberman; Judge Henderson dissented.
    The opinion is here http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/...3/04-7041a.pdf for the legal begals on the forum .
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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Fantastic!

    Now, this doesn't quite mean that the gun ban is dead. I'm guessing that the city will appeal, and the decision will almost certainly be stayed until that happens. They can either ask for the D.C. Circuit to rehear the case en banc (argue the case before all of the judges on the circuit, rather than just the three judge panel) or appeal directly to the Supreme Court. If it goes to the Supreme Court (either directly or after an en banc hearing) there's a pretty good chance they'll take the case. The Fifth Circuit court of appeals has already ruled that the 2A is a individual right, while the other circuits have found it a 'collective right; so there is a split in interpretation between the different circuits (one of the big reasons the Supreme Court will take a case is to resolve circuit splits). It's been a long time since there was a real, direct 2A case decided by the Supreme Court, but this ruling means there's a pretty good chance that the issue will be before the court in the next year or two. Exciting, but scary. A ruling for the 2A as an individual right could do a lot of good, and a ruling for it as a collective right could do a lot of harm.
    Last edited by Blackeagle; March 9th, 2007 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Correct circuit split

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Exciting but scary indeed.

    The results of this if it ultimately is taken to the Supreme Court could be wonderful for us all and DC residents, or horrible for us all and things remain same for DC residents.
    All the marbles...

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    One highlight...

    Page 46--"To summarize, we conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad). In addition, the right to keep and bear arms had the important and salutary civic purpose of helping to preserve the citizen militia. The civic purpose was also a political expedient for the Federalists in the First Congress as it served, in part, to placate their Antifederalist opponents. The individual right facilitated militia service by ensuring that citizens would not be barred from keeping the arms they would need when called forth for militia duty. Despite the importance of the Second Amendment’s civic purpose, however, the activities it protects are not limited to militia service, nor is an individual’s enjoyment of the right contingent upon his or her continued or intermittent enrollment in the militia."

    Page 47--"In any event, the Supreme Court has unambiguously held that the Constitution and Bill of Rights are in effect in the District."

    Page 50-51--"The District contends that modern handguns are not the sort of weapons covered by the Second Amendment. But the District’s claim runs afoul of Miller’s discussion of “Arms.” The Miller Court concluded that the defendants, who did not appear in the Supreme Court, provided no showing that shortbarreled (or sawed-off) shotguns—banned by federal statute—bore “some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.” Miller, 307 U.S. at 178. However, the Court also observed that militiamen were expected to bring their private arms with them when called up for service. Those weapons would be “of the kind in common use at the time.” Id. at 179. There can be no question that most handguns (those in common use) fit that description then and now. See Emerson, 270 F.3d at 227 n.22 (assuming that a Beretta pistol passed the Miller test)."

    pages 52-53: "The modern handgun—and for that matter the rifle and long-barreled shotgun—is undoubtedly quite improved over its colonial-era predecessor, but it is, after all, a lineal descendant of that founding-era weapon, and it passes Miller’s standards. Pistols certainly bear “some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.” They are also in “common use” today, and probably far more so than in 1789. Nevertheless, it has been suggested by some that only colonial-era firearms (e.g., single-shot pistols) are covered by the Second Amendment. But just as the First Amendment free speech clause covers modern communication devices unknown to the founding generation, e.g., radio and television, and the Fourth Amendment protects telephonic conversation from a “search,” the Second Amendment protects the possession of the modern-day equivalents of the colonial pistol. See, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U.S. 27, 31-41 (2001) (applying Fourth Amendment standards to thermal imaging search)."

    Page 58--"Section 7-2507.02, like the bar on carrying a pistol within the home, amounts to a complete prohibition on the lawful use of handguns for self-defense. As such, we hold it unconstitutional". (note: discusses keeping a firearm locked and disassembled in the home)
    Last edited by SIGguy229; March 9th, 2007 at 01:50 PM. Reason: I just keep finding great stuff!!---but IANAL

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    Phew!! Yes - not sure how much optimism to let myself enjoy - guess it's premature to get too excited.

    This is definitely one of those ''watch this space'' deals - we can but hope for a right and just outcome.
    Chris - P95
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    My apologies for the long post...I just kept finding more and more stuff in the majority opinion--along the lines of the discussions on CC.com

    OK...who's secretly a Federal Circuit Court judge???

    It's interesting which states' Attorneys General and parties were for "us" (TX, AL, AR, CO, FL, GA, MI, MN, NE, ND, OH, UT, WY; SAF; CORE (yes--Congress of Racial Equality, Inc); NRA)

    ...and which ones were for "them" (MA, ID, MD, NJ, City of NY, City of Chicago, City of San Fran), plus the Brady crowd

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    Member Array tj1231's Avatar
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    EXCELLENT!


    Thanks for the condensed version SIGguy....I don't have the patience to read it in its entirety.


    "That right existed prior to the formation of the new government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad). In addition, the right to keep and bear arms had the important and salutary civic purpose of helping to preserve the citizen militia"

    Phew, I was beginning to think I was an idiot and didn't understand what the 2A said.

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    Member Array Linda's Avatar
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    We have the link to the 75 page ruling on our website. Our legislative chair called the attorney involved in this case. It's as good as it gets! Truly a great day indeed!
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3589.html
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    Member Array Catalina's Avatar
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    Just reaffirms our beliefs... now we need the politicians at all levels to PAY ATTENTION!!

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    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    Now, we can only hope!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    My apologies for the long post...I just kept finding more and more stuff in the majority opinion--along the lines of the discussions on CC.com

    OK...who's secretly a Federal Circuit Court judge???

    It's interesting which states' Attorneys General and parties were for "us" (TX, AL, AR, CO, FL, GA, MI, MN, NE, ND, OH, UT, WY; SAF; CORE (yes--Congress of Racial Equality, Inc); NRA)

    ...and which ones were for "them" (MA, ID, MD, NJ, City of NY, City of Chicago, City of San Fran), plus the Brady crowd

    when he signed onto it, Mike Hatch from MN was running for Governor and trying to prove his 2A credentials after lobbying against RKBA and CCW Shall Issue Legislature.
    For MN specific carry information and a great shooting community, check out forum.twincitiescarry.com

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    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Fantastic!

    Now, this doesn't quite mean that the gun ban is dead.....
    But, boy wouldn't it be nice if it did? The ban is one of the reasons that we don't go to DC more than we do (we're less than two hrs from there). With my 5 yr old the history buff that he already is, we will be going more, specially noew that he is "officially" in school (homeschool actually). It would be nice to take him there and know that I can defend my family if the need arises.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

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    Member Array Catalina's Avatar
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    Rush Limbaugh pimping it now... should be all over the mainstream media tonight.

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    This is big stuff. Man, that put a smile on my face.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p8riot View Post
    But, boy wouldn't it be nice if it did? The ban is one of the reasons that we don't go to DC more than we do (we're less than two hrs from there). With my 5 yr old the history buff that he already is, we will be going more, specially noew that he is "officially" in school (homeschool actually). It would be nice to take him there and know that I can defend my family if the need arises.
    HA! I've been about 15 minutes outside DC for the last 5-6 years and I've only been maybe 3 times? Hows that for avoidance! Then again I do the same thing with MD trying to go to PA...I go ALL the way around via WV.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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