March 11th, 2007 12:47 AM
People who carry and make you nervous...
So, I got a phone call tonight from my best friend who is getting married in June and moving to Tennessee. She was happy to inform me for that her birthday this year her fiance is paying for her to get her concealed weapons permit for Tennessee.
I was happy for her but a little uneasy. You see, I've known this gal all of my life and two years ago she shot at our wedding reception and scared us all by a) trying to put the magazine in the gun backwards, b) not knowing where the slide release was, c) not knowing where the thumb safety was, d) jumping about three feet in the air and screaming when the gun finally went off, and e) succeeding in hitting nothing but the dirt four feet in front of her.
Now, she has assured me that her fiance has taken her to the range and she is getting much better at shooting. Obviously the first step!
So, as a concealed carrier and gun advocate I started some conversation in the way of questions...
"So, do you know what you are going to be carrying?"
"Yeah, my fiance bought me a .32. I have it with me," she currently lives in South Carolina, "I obviously don't carry it, but it's in my possession."
"Really, what manufacturer?"
"I have NO idea. I really know nothing about guns."
"Do you at least know how to take it apart?"
"I think so. I did it once with my fiance. I don't know if I remember or not."
"Do you know how often you are going to be carrying it?"
"No. To be honest, I haven't really thought about it. I guess it depends on what I'm wearing or if it will fit in my purse or not."
"So, do you have a holster yet? Do you know how you are going to be carrying?"
"No, no holster. I guess that's why I really like the .32. It's SO SMALL. Smaller than some water pistols I've seen. I guess I'll just be keeping it in my purse."
"Really? Can I try to talk you out of purse carry?"
"For many reasons; 1. A purse is a target for purse snatchers and such; 2. it's very difficult to draw from a purse. Just trust me okay, don't carry in your purse unless you absolutely HAVE to."
"Oh, well, then, I guess I'll see if my fiance can get me a holster. I don't know. I really don't know how I'm going to carry yet. We'll see."
The conversation went on like this for a short while and I could sense she was getting irritated. She always gets irritated when she thinks I'm trying to 'instruct' her in something. Unless she asks she doesn't like being given advice or asked pointed questions.
I'm glad that she's getting more into guns, but I don't think she's doing it one bit for self defense or protection as much as she is because her fiance wants her to. I'm very glad that he is concerned for her safety and well-being, but I don't think he has fully understands the responsibility he's asking her to undertake; and I know for SURE she doesn't have a clue or she'd be taking it MUCH more seriously.
I've known her all my life and know that situational awareness and grit in the sight of danger are not her strong points.
I directed her to corneredcat.com and told her to do her research, but feel very uneasy about her carrying.
Of course I want her to be safe, but has there ever been someone who told you they were interested in carrying and your first reaction was to tell them to think again?
It reminds me of a time my husband and I were in a gun shop and overheard a guy and his buddy looking at Sigs. He proclaimed that he had just gotten his CCW and he was looking for his carry gun.
His buddy pretty much fed him all of the information on the guns while he went around going, "Oh, hey, that looks good," or "I like the feel of that one." He got completely freaked out when he pulled the slide back on one 1911 with a magazine in it and the slide stayed back. His reaction was, "Is it supposed to do that?"
My initial thought was to pray to God that I never be around this kid if the stuff ever hit the fan.
While, obviously, I think that concealed carry is a wonderful tool, sometimes I look around at the people interested in carrying and my face makes that pained, twisted look accompanied by an "Iiiieeeeeeaaaaaahhhh don't know."
Am I paranoid and alone, or do some of you other faithful CCWers ever feel the same?
March 11th, 2007 12:53 AM
Perhaps a CCW advanced course for your friend and her hubby might be a good wedding gift. while I don't like mandated training standards for CCW , more people ought to learn MUCH more than their basic CCW class teaches em.
We had men and women in my CCW class that had never shot their guns before. One even had in still in the wax paper in the case.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
March 11th, 2007 01:07 AM
Good points Lima, but I think you need to start somewhere. Not everyone had a mom and dad who taught them about guns. If this woman will go to the range and spend time taking her gun apart and put time in simply being familiar with the gun prior to carrying, then i have no qualms. But if she doesn't put the work in, or anyone else for that matter, they should not be carrying. I am WAY against any kind of regulation to make sure people are adequately trained on their gun of choicer, but it sure would be nice if everyone were. Kudos on the advanced training gift idea.
March 11th, 2007 04:38 AM
I Agree With The Above...
Self-defense pistol courses can do wonders for a person. Some of the problems I have noticed with others who handle a gun...do things that I used to do...(touching triggers, pointing in the wrong direction, and unsafe break downs...)
Training and practice, training and practice, and then, more training practice will make unbelieveable changes in a person...
With the right training, your friend's wife might just out shoot you and give YOU, some pointers on weapons...some day...stranger things have happened!
Stay armed...stay safe!
Last edited by RETSUPT99; March 11th, 2007 at 11:02 PM.
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March 11th, 2007 05:01 AM
Yes. I have known a couple of folks who made me a bit uneasy that had their ccw permits and carried fairly regularly. But, they are adults. They took the training mandated by their states and passed so the state deemed them to be acceptable to carry a gun. So what am I going to do about it?
Nothing. Other than watch them when I am around them and always be on guard for some type of stupid move on their pat.
March 11th, 2007 08:42 AM
Yeah, I know what you mean. One individual I am in contact with through business had had some conversations about carrying. I admitted that I did and shot several times a month. He started bragging about how he did fast draw, hip shooting as a teen and would shoot bottles out of the air. Don't know about that but he's in his fifties now and admits he hasn't shot since then but he's sure he's just as good!
So, next visit he's bragging about getting his permit but needs to get a gun. He asked me what I carried and I told him of my choices and why I made them, the importance of choosing a carry method and holster, etc. His response was what really scared me. He figures caliber dosn't matter as all he really needs is some little gun to wave around to scare off the crooks! I asked him if he had heard anything the instructor said during his class about the realities of carrying? Oh, that's just to scare off some people who shouldn't carry was his response. He figured he just needed a little .22 or .32 he could throw in a pocket. He couldn't be bothered with all that other stuff.
Then he wanted to know if I would pull my 1911 and let him check it out! My response was that nobody touches my 1911. Far from true but a definite in his case! These are the people who scare me.
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
March 11th, 2007 08:59 AM
There are any number of people who are carrying way too early in the game, long before they have the grit and ability to carry safely and responsibly. Many simply don't appreciate that there's a big difference between having a gun and being able to defend one's self, and a similar gulf between self-defense (drawing/defending) and actually killing someone. Without having thought through all of the issues, she might well endanger herself with the damned thing; or worse, others.
Originally Posted by limatunes
I'd be amazed if she understands the big four "rules" and why they exist. (LMFT: a gun's always loaded; muzzle control; finger control; knowing your target.)
Sounds like she's a candidate for some formal, professional training. Something on the order of: Ayoob's course on Judicious Use Of Deadly Force, or Gunsite's various courses (Pistol, Defensive Pistol and Ladies Pistol).
If nothing else, she'll learn about safe handling techniques. Hopefully, she'll also learn about the .32cal and its place on the food chain. With the Ayoob course, she'll also understand the grave responsibility she's undertaking.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
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March 11th, 2007 08:59 AM
Yeah, you meet those folks once in a while...
I had a guy one of my CC courses last June...A referral from a friend (strike one LOL). Supposedly, he had "been around guns all his life"...
Needless to say, in the shooting/range portion, he was having "issues"...And at one point, before I knew it, his Charter Arms revolver was pointed at my chest...
Last edited by Weeg; March 11th, 2007 at 11:27 AM.
March 11th, 2007 09:24 AM
I know a few that have their permit and would make me nervous if they actually carried. The truly un-interested in learning usually give up carrying after a short while. I have a co-worker thats the knows too much kind of guy, bring me his Kimber to re-assemble for him. he makes me nervous.
March 11th, 2007 10:11 AM
Quite agree Michael - but it sure is hard to correct that easily, particularly if the individuals feel they ''know it all'' when they certainly do not.
There are any number of people who are carrying way too early in the game, long before they have the grit and ability to carry safely and responsibly.
I am teaching another Basic Pistol in coupla weeks and know that at least the folks who go thru that finish up being adequately up to speed on their gun's manual of arms and safety. The two major factors IMO before anything else.
I have managed a few times to take someone beyond the ''just owning'' stage and make sure they know the gun and safety rules but - so much depends on the person's willingness to admit that they do NOT know it all yet - and are therefore at least receptive to being educated.
lima - I do hope your friend sees the light and will become more amenable to learning.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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March 11th, 2007 10:30 AM
I was a 2A absolutist for quite a long time. Then I became the chairman of the rifle/pistol range at my gun club. After a few months I had come to he painful realization that some folks aught not own or shoot firearms. I had no idea so many shooters were blind and or illiterate. I really didn't.
As a CHP instructor I have turned some people away from my class. In my opinion they weren't ready. I'm sure there are folks out there that if I knew that they were carrying I would be a bit nervous.
I certainly hope your friend get some training on her pistol and deadly force issues.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
March 11th, 2007 11:09 AM
Sounds like she needs some time to learn from those who know about guns. Have her join the forum!!!
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
March 11th, 2007 11:10 AM
It sounds like this lady needs some more training! Someone carrying a weapon they are not familiar with would make me nervous too.
When I started reading your message (during the wedding part) my first thought was everyone has to start someplace, but as you describe more is sounds like she's off to a bad start.
EOD - Initial success or total failure
March 11th, 2007 11:31 AM
Gun play at a wedding reception?
Originally Posted by limatunes
March 11th, 2007 01:33 PM
Yes, I have noticed that quite a few that seem to be interested in carrying are not really interested in furthering their knowledge about firearms and carrying one. I try and offer some kind advice to them and direct them towards this forum. You can always instruct someone, but they are the ones who have to choose to learn. If someone really wants to know more about a subject they research it and learn. while I am not saying to turn your cheek to anyone needing direction but, in my experience, sometimes they don't want to listen.
In another thread Limatunes referred to people carrying but not really understanding the responsibility and this is true for a certain percentage of people.
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