VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

This is a discussion on VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I guess we got through. They removed the database. I hope they did it in time. The Roanoke Times Removes Database of Handgun Permit Holders ...

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Thread: VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    I guess we got through. They removed the database. I hope they did it in time.
    The Roanoke Times Removes Database of Handgun Permit Holders

    March 12, 2007 — The Roanoke Times has decided to remove the online database of registered concealed handgun permit holders from its website.

    The newspaper is requesting the Virginia State Police, which provided the information, verify the data.

    “When we posted the information, we had every reason to believe that the data the State Police had supplied would comply with the statutes. But people have notified us that the list includes names that should not have been released,” said Debbie Meade, president and publisher of The Roanoke Times. “Out of a sense of caution and concern for the public we have decided to take the database off of our website.”

    The database was posted on roanoke.com on Sunday as part of a New River Valley editorial page column about open records. This column, as well as others that will be published this week, is part of a special focus on Sunshine Week, a national initiative to raise awareness about open government and freedom of information.
    http://www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    The writer may have broken the law............

    It looks like my earlier post may have been correct:

    "IT would seem that not only has the VSP screwed up, but now Mr. Trejbal is now an accessory to the crime. Here's the Virginia State code that is in violation. I would recommend no more contact with him on this matter as it is about to get legally ugly."

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+cod+19.2-11.2
    § 19.2-11.2. Crime victim's right to nondisclosure of certain information; exceptions; testimonial privilege.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  4. #63
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    This column, as well as others that will be published this week, is part of a special focus on Sunshine Week, a national initiative to raise awareness about open government and freedom of information.
    I wonder what the next article we be..................maybe something like single young women who are unarmed & have no burglar alarm....complete with pictures & directions on where they live?...after all marriage licenses are public records.........

    Can you tell this pissed me off?
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  5. #64
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    There are no lengths to which the clueless will not go to try to appear clever. Trejbal obviously gave no thought to the consequences of his irresponsible attempt to be glib. It will be interesting to see if he, a la Zumbo, has an epiphany as a result.

    Hang tough, Virginia. Texas is with you.
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  6. #65
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    Re:

    Wooot!!! Go VCDL! I know they may not get all the credit but i can bet bullets they had a big part in this Virginia Victory..... Just waitin on the newsletter email tonight...

  7. #66
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    GAF,

    I cannot believe that the newspapers editor and/or legal team did not think of this very real consideration and potential liability.

    Fools!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #67
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    “When we posted the information, we had every reason to believe that the data the State Police had supplied would comply with the statutes. But people have notified us that the list includes names that should not have been released,” said Debbie Meade, president and publisher of The Roanoke Times. “Out of a sense of caution and concern for the public we have decided to take the database off of our website.”
    The list includes names that should not have been released? No kidding. I really hope everyone in the irresponsibility chain at that newspaper gets named in whatever lawsuit gets filed.

    Question: Does anyone know whether the Virginia state Attorney General or one of the relevant District Attorneys is involved yet?

    Out of a "sense of caution and concern for the public" they've decided to remove the database link from the web site, eh? Right. Perhaps you can't legislate stupidity, but you can sure put a large dent in it via the most expensive sorts of lawsuits. Go VCDL, NRA and anyone else who can dogpile on this one.

    In poking around on that database, last night, I wanted to see how far I could get. I found one lady who apparently had a restraining order out on someone (assumed via some other info from recent public statements made in news articles; a few military veterans and some currently serving; a couple of former officials; a couple of teachers. All it took was putting two and two together, plus ~1hr at the computer. God knows how many people were actually placed in peril by the irresponsible publishing of that damned thing. If I could squeeze that info out in 1hr's time, I hate to think what someone could have done with the proper knowledge and tools.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  9. #68
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    My LTE to this dummy.

    You, sir, are dead wrong.

    You're only targeting law-abiding citizens with this little jab against our Constitutional rights. The next time you feel the need to mount your soapbox, write something about the criminals who invade our lives in this area on a daily basis, post the addresses of convicted felons for everyone to see. Doesn't that make more sense? Shouldn't we be more attuned to the whereabouts of those who harm our community rather than those who have proven themselves to be law-abiding citizens?

    On every level, this article proves that you are unworthy of your position. Nothing less than your resignation will satisfy my sense of justice in this instance.
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    This here JimmyHat is for your protection, and mine.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHat View Post
    Nothing less than your resignation will satisfy my sense of justice in this instance.
    Nothing short of the criminal prosecution and imprisonment of the people involved (every last one of them) will satisfy my sense of justice, here. I'll just bet that one or more folks will be killed from that list, in some criminal action over the coming weeks or months. Proving the relationship will be next to impossible, though these folks will be responsible none the less. May they rot ... and may the jail rot around them ...
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #70
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Newspapers in Ohio have been doing this. The Cleveland Plain Dealer is notorious for posting everybody in like a six or seven county area in NE Ohio. They also posted articles that were anti-CCL.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  12. #71
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    A local TV news station has segments online talking about the removal of the list.

    http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6216271

    11PM update has much more attractiv...err... articulate... anchor.

  13. #72
    Member Array Geno's Avatar
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    The Roanoke Rag and their sorry Christian ain't the only ones to blame on this dastardly deal. First and formost, at least here in Kansas, a confidentiality statement must be read and signed by all of those in law enforcement. The statment here is quite lengthy and refers to many laws by statute number only. When I was in law enforcement a few years ago, the office manager hounded me day after day for my signed statment of confidentiality. I kept putting her off day after day because we did not have a law library at the SO as to look up the numbered laws. ...Long story short, the information release officer is in charge of some very private info. He/She should know without a doubt just what to release and what NOT to release. Period. Looks like to me VSP was the first to drop the ball, and sure should have done a better job. My heart goes out to those abused and battered women and kids affected by this exposure. I can only imagine what a scramble for long term safety that they may be in right now. .......AND somebody besides them ought to have to pay for it. This is not excusing the press in any way 'cause they should have used a hell of a lot more disgression too.

  14. #73
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    If you live in Virginia and have friends who subscribe to the Roanoke Times, please make sure that they cancel their subscriptions. Also, if you have acquaintances who advertise with them, encourage them to drop their advertising. Make sure the newspaper know why!

    There is no sense giving them money that can be used to fund their legal defense.

  15. #74
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    Letter I just sent to my Virginia legislators

    On Sunday, March 11, the Roanoke Times published an editorial titled, "Shedding light on concealed handguns." This article appeared on the online version of the newspaper at http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160 . To summarize the topic of my email, editorialist Christian Trejbal provided a searchable statewide link to all CHP holders in VA, www.roanoke.com/gunpermits , which included complete addresses. The link is no longer active, due to an overwhelmingly negative response from affected gun owners, as well as the fact that there were several individuals on the list that should not have been made public, such as police officers, judges, victims of and witnesses to criminal violence, politicians, etc. Several states have enacted legislation to protect the privacy of CHP holders. Obviously, such a publicly documented list can only serve as a shopping list for criminals, and I fail to see why a Roanoke newspaper feels the need to publish my information, as I live five hours away. Although it is too late this year, I am asking that you write legislation in 2008 to protect the personal and private information of CHP holders from such aggregious abuses of the Freedom Of Information Act and the right to free speech. Further, I believe that an investigation into the Virginia State Police's release of such information is warranted. CHP holders know that concealed means concealed. As such, any information about CHP holders, in my opinion, is none of the public's business. This is not a gun issue, it is a safety and privacy issue. The Roanoke Times, and the current law, have threatened the safety of many Virginia families. Thank you, XXXX XXXX

    Send your VA legislator a letter too:

    http://conview.state.va.us/whosmy.nsf/main?openform
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  16. #75
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Roanoke Times publishes article... this one is a bit better.

    http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/108384

    One day after igniting a firestorm of criticism, The Roanoke Times decided Monday to remove from its Web site a list of Virginians licensed to carry concealed weapons.

    The list, published as part of an opinion column about open records that ran Sunday in the newspaper’s New River Valley Current section, was taken down Monday afternoon out of concern that it might include names that should not have been made public, president and publisher Debbie Meade said.

    Although she had received no official word from Virginia State Police, which provided the data at the paper’s request, Meade said she was concerned enough about complaints from readers to act out of an abundance of caution.

    “Our concern is that if the information should have been protected and it wasn’t, then we don’t want to run it,” Meade said.

    The list, which included both the names and street addresses of about 135,000 Virginians with permits to carry concealed weapons, was linked to a column by editorial writer Christian Trejbal that ran in the Current section.

    Hundreds of readers complained on the newspaper’s message board and to a gun-rights group that publishing the names of concealed-weapons permit holders violated the privacy of law-abiding citizens and gave potential criminals information that would help them find victims.

    “By publishing that list, you’ve created a windfall for criminals,” said Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League . Van Cleave and others argued that convicted felons, barred from buying guns at stores, could use the list to select homes to burglarize in their search for firepower.

    Another concern was for the safety of domestic abuse victims, who might want to carry concealed weapons for their own protection but don’t want an abusive former partner to know where they live. With those addresses now public, “the stalkers and the rapists and those people are more empowered,” Van Cleave said.

    Similar concerns were shared by the director of interactive learning for The Poynter Institute, a journalism think tank in Florida.

    “You could take that information and you could do a lot with it,” said Howard Finberg. “I would say it raises some serious concerns about the unintended consequences of such actions.”

    Critics have also questioned why Trejbal chose such a polarizing topic as guns to illustrate a column meant to discuss Sunshine Week, a national initiative to promote the importance of open government and public records.

    “Could the point he wanted to make — highlighting Sunshine Week — been done in a different way that would not raise the potential of someone doing something with that list?” Finberg asked.

    Meade said the pros and cons of running the list were discussed in advance.

    The decision to publish the list was made, with Meade’s knowledge, by Editorial Page Editor Dan Radmacher, who was out of the office Monday.

    “I think Dan would say that we probably underestimated the kind of response that this would prompt,” Meade said. In hindsight, she said, “I think we could have asked for a broader and deeper discussion.”

    However, Meade said heated opposition to Trejbal’s column was not a factor in pulling the list.

    A written statement released by the newspaper stressed that the decision to remove the list was made “out of a sense of caution and concern for the public” that was based on questions about whether some names should have been included.

    The newspaper is in the process of asking state police to verify the data and clarify whether it can be made public, Meade said.

    It was not clear Monday exactly what category of names should possibly not have been released.

    But if a revised list is ever published, Van Cleave said his organization is already discussing ways to fight back, which could possibly include boycotting major advertisers and making public as much personal information about Trejbal and other editors as the group can find.

    “If you’re going to light us up like a Christmas tree and invade our privacy, then we want you to know what it’s like to live in a glass house,” Van Cleave said.
    Trejbal, who said he has received threats from some angry readers, said he was disappointed that “so many people have missed the point about the column. It was not fundamentally about guns. It was fundamentally about open government.”

    While expressing sympathy for concealed-weapons permit holders who might have been put in a difficult position by publication of the list, Trejbal added that information about individual permit holders is readily available at any courthouse.

    “Did we make it easier [to obtain the information]? Yes,” he said. “But it’s still a public record.”

    But Trejbal’s “mean-spirited” column did more than expedite fishing expeditions, Van Cleave said.

    It also unfairly compared law-abiding gun owners to sex offenders, he said, by noting that “a state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not.”

    As Dale Hawley wrote on the newspaper’s message board, such a comment ignores the fact that people who apply to carry a concealed weapon for legitimate reasons of self-protection must undergo background checks to ensure they have no criminal record.

    “That you don’t understand this is, at best, terrible ignorance and at worst smacks of prejudice and yellow journalism,” Hawley wrote on the online forum, which had generated more than 300 comments by midday Monday.

    Another poster wrote: “I’ve moved twice to get away from a violent ex. Now I have to move again. I really appreciate you publishing my address. Gee, thanks.”

    Van Cleave said he has received more than 500 angry calls and e-mails, including two from state legislators.

    Past gun-related controversies have been “like a firecracker” by comparison, he said. “This one is like a thermonuclear bomb.”

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